Ring the Bell

[Travlr]

Now what can be told other than looks and disposition. Maybe with good ears you could detect labored or bad breathing. How long do you presume to observe in the sale ring?. Most that I am aware of do not give you much time to evaluate a long list of criteria.

I think most people that have developed a good eye have a template already in their minds, and when they see something it either fits the template or it doesn't... and if it doesn't there are either little differences or great differences. It's not like we have a long list to be checked off.

 

[Silver]

I disagree with this statement. I have made best money trading rough cattle bought cheaply than the top end.

I suppose this all depends on what you are doing with them. In my statement I am assuming putting the cattle in your herd with the expectation of them being able to produce above average replacements type females. In other words, long term profitability vs. short keep.
Good cattle don't have to be the most expensive cattle, especially if one avoids the commotion, promotion and emotional of the sale ring.

Edit to add: There is a big difference between cattle in rough shape and poor quality cattle.

 

[mwj]

The elephant in the room is how flexible your operation is and how willing you are to look outside of your box. The cattle industry makes profit or loss over all kinds of cattle. Reputation cattle make up a small % of the national herd.

 

[Travlr]

Reputation cattle make up a small % of the national herd.

Maybe... maybe not.

And maybe only because so many operations are so small that they never develop a reputation or see any benefit from having one. I'd have to think that reputations are mostly acquired by registered breeders as far as them producing high quality individuals... and for commercial cattle it is only for those with numbers of better quality animals sold in groups.

 

[Silver]

Maybe... maybe not.

And maybe only because so many operations are so small that they never develop a reputation or see any benefit from having one. I'd have to think that reputations are mostly acquired by registered breeders as far as them producing high quality individuals... and for commercial cattle it is only for those with numbers of better quality animals sold in groups.

That statement makes me think… and goes off track… but shouldn't commercial breeders no be able to raise cattle at least as good as registered breeders? I think even better actually. There's an argument starter lol

 

[Travlr]

That statement makes me think… and goes off track… but shouldn't commercial breeders no be able to raise cattle at least as good as registered breeders? I think even better actually. There's an argument starter lol

I don't see why commercial breeders wouldn't try to raise the best they can raise. From my perspective it costs the same to raise a really good calf to weaning as it costs to raise a poor quality calf to weaning.

 

[shaz]

I raise my own heifers simply because those calves grow up knowing the farm, where the 2nd gate to the feedlot is, what a hotwire is ect...
Unfortunately, I tend to judge heifers based on growth more than anything else where some of the slow growing smaller mamas have stayed in the herd the longest

 

[mwj]

That statement makes me think… and goes off track… but shouldn't commercial breeders no be able to raise cattle at least as good as registered breeders? I think even better actually. There's an argument starter lol

Well on topic! Yes they can an do raise that quality of cattle. Registered is not a quality term . Good quality cattle that fit your conditions and markets should work anywhere.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Now what can be told other than looks and disposition. Maybe with good ears you could detect labored or bad breathing. How long do you presume to observe in the sale ring?. Most that I am aware of do not give you much time to evaluate a long list of criteria.

Although I have not been to many sales, I have been able to spend upwards of an hour observing cattle standing in the pens, being moved between pens, how they react to the hands, horses and dogs, and chat with some of the hands about this or that set long before they enter the ring at 100% of the sales I have attended. Is that uncommon?

 

[Travlr]

Although I have not been to many sales, I have been able to spend upwards of an hour observing cattle standing in the pens, being moved between pens, how they react to the hands, horses and dogs, and chat with some of the hands about this or that set long before they enter the ring at 100% of the sales I have attended. Is that uncommon?

There's a lot of variation between sale barns. I've seen places that check and mark cattle for their teeth condition, age, and pregnancy by months. Some outfits don't do them at all. I've seen overhead walks and no facility at all for customers to see what's due to sell. I've seen places that have pull through drop off, and others where everyone has to back in. Some places have facilities to work cattle that are bought or just brought in to be worked. The one thing that seems pretty universal is a small cafe where someone can get a good burger and fries.

 

[Brute 23]

Registered or not, you have to buy cattle that fit your operation. I think that is what gets most people, they try to do what others are doing instead of what works for them. If you look at the people on here there are two groups. One groups is confident in what they do, no matter the method, because they have the books to prove it. The other group is still trying to find their way or is just doing what their neighbor does and is hoping for the best.

 

[Dave]

There's a lot of variation between sale barns. I've seen places that check and mark cattle for their teeth condition, age, and pregnancy by months. Some outfits don't do them at all. I've seen overhead walks and no facility at all for customers to see what's due to sell. I've seen places that have pull through drop off, and others where everyone has to back in. Some places have facilities to work cattle that are bought or just brought in to be worked. The one thing that seems pretty universal is a small cafe where someone can get a good burger and fries.

I wish Producers Livestock in Vale OR had some sort of a cafe. The very small deal they had where you could get a cup of coffee, soda, donuts, or a candy bar shut down during Covid and never opened back up. Now sometimes there is a taco truck out in the parking lot. Expensive and not good.

 

[Little Joe]

I'm a very small operation and don't have half the cattle experience as some of you. For me, I play the short game buying cows and the long game on my freezer beef operation. I like buying cows that can pay for themselves quickly, mostly due to some bad experiences I've had trying to play the long game. Some those experiences were due to my lack of experience and some were due to nature and Murphy's law, either way I lost money. It's easier on your pocket book to lose a $1000 cow than it is a $2000 one. I also used to watch the guy that owned the local sale barn buy cattle for himself, rarely was he buying number 1 cattle, his herd was a mixture of mutts of all kinds that he knew would make quick money. Another guy I know that works at the sale barn is the same way, in fact more at of the guys I know who work sale barns are buying and running number 2&3 cattle. These are guys that see what cattle bring and how they perform regularly. I know some big operators running a good uniform group of cattle but most of the people I know trying to make a living at it have mutts. I don't have enough experience to say which way is right just stating my observations.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Meanwhile, in Ontario...
View attachment 1000019386.mp4

 

[Travlr]

I'm a very small operation and don't have half the cattle experience as some of you. For me, I play the short game buying cows and the long game on my freezer beef operation. I like buying cows that can pay for themselves quickly, mostly due to some bad experiences I've had trying to play the long game. Some those experiences were due to my lack of experience and some were due to nature and Murphy's law, either way I lost money. It's easier on your pocket book to lose a $1000 cow than it is a $2000 one. I also used to watch the guy that owned the local sale barn buy cattle for himself, rarely was he buying number 1 cattle, his herd was a mixture of mutts of all kinds that he knew would make quick money. Another guy I know that works at the sale barn is the same way, in fact more at of the guys I know who work sale barns are buying and running number 2&3 cattle. These are guys that see what cattle bring and how they perform regularly. I know some big operators running a good uniform group of cattle but most of the people I know trying to make a living at it have mutts. I don't have enough experience to say which way is right just stating my observations.

So here is my question. If you go to the sale barn with a load of calves... do you make more money selling 20 calves that look high quality and very similar... or selling twenty calves that are a box of crayons in color, size, and physical type?

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I wish Producers Livestock in Vale OR had some sort of a cafe. The very small deal they had where you could get a cup of coffee, soda, donuts, or a candy bar shut down during Covid and never opened back up. Now sometimes there is a taco truck out in the parking lot. Expensive and not good.

It was tough to beat the burgers at the old sale yard in Chehalis. It think it was called the Bull pen.

 

[Heronfish]

Eunice Williams was on a podcast and said so etching that stuck with me. Paraphrasing here of course.
She said Bud started teaching marketing classes because he could train them to be better stockmen, but if they had poor marketing skills they would still go broke.

The same can be said for genetics. You could have the finest beef cattle genetics in the world, but if you're overpaying for them and not marketing your cattle properly, you'll go broke.

 

[WAnabee]

It was tough to beat the burgers at the old sale yard in Chehalis. It think it was called the Bull pen.

Still good burgers at Everson

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I've never been up north to the sale. They still had good burgers at Chehalis Livestock Market last time I was there.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

What do you mean by "quality" or "good" when it comes to cows? I have learnt that an animal that works in one environment doesn't work in another. I now prefer to buy bunches of cows and find diamonds in the rough rather than buy a single expensive bull.

If someone is buying what they call "less expensive," it kind of implies a sacrifice, doesn't it? What would be the sacrifice, if not quality ...
Whatever quality is for them. But I would assume "breed standard" would be an indicator of quality to some degree.

No?