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I was thinking about the big ranches down in Texas that own their own Hardware stores, etc., and thinking how they get economies of scale by cutting out the middle men. A temporary co-op to get over the fencing crisis might save hundreds of thousands of dollars and only need to last 6 months or whatever.
Both of the livestock supply stores here have said they will sell fence supplies at cost to the fire victims. FSA has sent the requests up the ladder so most people are waiting for the response. 75% cost share is a lot better than getting some money off supplies. People with large acreage of BLM are not in a hurry because BLM has already said it will be 2 to 5 years before they will be allowed to have cattle back on their land.
 
Both of the livestock supply stores here have said they will sell fence supplies at cost to the fire victims. FSA has sent the requests up the ladder so most people are waiting for the response. 75% cost share is a lot better than getting some money off supplies. People with large acreage of BLM are not in a hurry because BLM has already said it will be 2 to 5 years before they will be allowed to have cattle back on their land.
Wow, that'd have to hurt for guys like you Dave. Not many can survive a 5 year hiatus, if a substantial amount of your operation is dependent on BLM grazing. I don't imagine there'd be alot there regardless, although, burning might open it up pretty quickly for better grazing. I'm not working on that kind of ground obviously, have only seen what fires have done in areas where it went through, like Yellowstone and the Black Hills, etc.
 
Both of the livestock supply stores here have said they will sell fence supplies at cost to the fire victims. FSA has sent the requests up the ladder so most people are waiting for the response. 75% cost share is a lot better than getting some money off supplies. People with large acreage of BLM are not in a hurry because BLM has already said it will be 2 to 5 years before they will be allowed to have cattle back on their land.
2/5 years is gonna hurt. Nice to hear that some things are coming together to reduce the costs, though.
 
Wow, that'd have to hurt for guys like you Dave. Not many can survive a 5 year hiatus, if a substantial amount of your operation is dependent on BLM grazing. I don't imagine there'd be alot there regardless, although, burning might open it up pretty quickly for better grazing. I'm not working on that kind of ground obviously, have only seen what fires have done in areas where it went through, like Yellowstone and the Black Hills, etc.
Doesn't hurt me. I have rights on 2 different allotments but I have them leased out. My cows don't go that way. The one allotment only half burned. The BLM told the man who runs cows on that one that he has to build a cross fence to separate the burned from the part which didn't burn. The entire story is too long to type out. Some will be heavily effected. Some not so much.
 
Doesn't hurt me. I have rights on 2 different allotments but I have them leased out. My cows don't go that way. The one allotment only half burned. The BLM told the man who runs cows on that one that he has to build a cross fence to separate the burned from the part which didn't burn. The entire story is too long to type out. Some will be heavily effected. Some not so much.
Stupid bureaucratic policy that doesn't reflect recent range science, but yah a whole other topic. I feel for everyone caught up in that wreck.
 
Doesn't hurt me. I have rights on 2 different allotments but I have them leased out. My cows don't go that way. The one allotment only half burned. The BLM told the man who runs cows on that one that he has to build a cross fence to separate the burned from the part which didn't burn. The entire story is too long to type out. Some will be heavily effected. Some not so much.
I don't know much about BLM ground relating to cattle, but 1. wouldn't the cattle be pretty much self regulating since there's little to eat? 2. Would cattle be beneficial if the ground was seeded lightly to get the seed into the ground and create wells that would trap water?
 
I don't know much about BLM ground relating to cattle, but 1. wouldn't the cattle be pretty much self regulating since there's little to eat? 2. Would cattle be beneficial if the ground was seeded lightly to get the seed into the ground and create wells that would trap water?
just a water thought. one of my places is probably the largest intact in my local area. all 400+ acre ranches surrounding me have been sold and divided into 5,10, a few to 25 acres. houses going up everywhere. can't get down the road for the house builders. what will happen to water when everyone drills a well? the water table may be unreachable. water is already a scarce commodity and drilling a well, if feasible, is quite expensive.
 
just a water thought. one of my places is probably the largest intact in my local area. all 400+ acre ranches surrounding me have been sold and divided into 5,10, a few to 25 acres. houses going up everywhere. can't get down the road for the house builders. what will happen to water when everyone drills a well? the water table may be unreachable. water is already a scarce commodity and drilling a well, if feasible, is quite expensive.
You should start a thread about that. I bet a lot of people would like to talk about it.
 
I don't know much about BLM ground relating to cattle, but 1. wouldn't the cattle be pretty much self regulating since there's little to eat? 2. Would cattle be beneficial if the ground was seeded lightly to get the seed into the ground and create wells that would trap water?
You have to rest ground after a burn to let the grasses get back to healthy heights/ levels.

Regrowth after a burn is like a fresh oats patch. If you let the cattle on it and eat it to a point they are self regulating you will destroy the grass.

The burns promote all the natural seeds. They just need time to re-establish.

With that said, 3-5 years seems extreme but I have never been in that area.
 
I don't know much about BLM ground relating to cattle, but 1. wouldn't the cattle be pretty much self regulating since there's little to eat? 2. Would cattle be beneficial if the ground was seeded lightly to get the seed into the ground and create wells that would trap water?
Depends on what comes up in the spring. If it is a bunch of cheat grass, then it needs hit hard in the spring and the following winter. If native range grass, then a spring deferment and light grazing for a year and it should be fine after that. There will be a lot of annual forbs and weeds that could provide at least some use. Sagebrush and other brush and forbs eventually come back fine. Likely no reseeding on thousands of acres of range. Most plant species that should be there are likely fire-adapted to some extent.
 
I don't know much about BLM ground relating to cattle, but 1. wouldn't the cattle be pretty much self regulating since there's little to eat? 2. Would cattle be beneficial if the ground was seeded lightly to get the seed into the ground and create wells that would trap water?
The BLM does what the BLM does. They are the "experts" and they have the final word. There is not enough seed to spread it on all the burns. To put 10 pounds per acre on all the range land burnt this last summer you would need 10 million pounds of seed. There just isn't any seed of the right species out there. And the majority of this land the only way to seed is from the air. It is $30 an acre for the helicopter plus another $30-$50 for the seed if you can find any. The 2 allotments which I have shared rights on total over 15,000 acres. That would be $900,000+ for seeding that may or may not take. Nobody has that kind of money.
 
just a water thought. one of my places is probably the largest intact in my local area. all 400+ acre ranches surrounding me have been sold and divided into 5,10, a few to 25 acres. houses going up everywhere. can't get down the road for the house builders. what will happen to water when everyone drills a well? the water table may be unreachable. water is already a scarce commodity and drilling a well, if feasible, is quite expensive.
I've watched how things are going in Texas from afar (occasional trips down there over the last 40 years), and I sure don't like what I'm seeing with the "residential development" taking over the rural areas... and now all the solar development as well. And it's not just Texas, it's just about everywhere. We just tightened up our ordinance language here in our township to try to prevent it from happening and losing agriculture. I'm afraid that it's already been lost in alot of the country. Either you take "protecting agriculture" from those things that will negatively impact it seriously, or you might just as well decide right now that it's just not important anymore.

And I guess we can all learn to eat lab grown meat then. .............. If we lose agriculture, we'll be done as a society.
 
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I've watched how things are going in Texas from afar (occasional trips down there over the last 40 years), and I sure don't like what I'm seeing with the "residential development" taking over the rural areas...
It's mainly the Texas triangle on the East side of Texas being developed. It's honestly surprising when you drive into any part of that triangle. Traffic just starts getting heavier and heavier. The solar is a huge deal. I'd guess there's 35,000 acres of new solar withing 45 minutes of me. I'm 5 minutes from the biggest solar farm in the Nation. Our County Commissioner told me Monday another 25,000 acres of solar was coming in. It's not good. Hardly any jobs or revenue other than to the land owners.
 
I've watched how things are going in Texas from afar (occasional trips down there over the last 40 years), and I sure don't like what I'm seeing with the "residential development" taking over the rural areas...
The county tax appraiser and the county tax assessor/collectors are driving and encouraging it.
Even with homestead exemption, the counties make way more tax revenue off subdivisions with 8 new $300,000 houses on an acre than they did off that same acre in pasture...with an ag exemption.
 
It's mainly the Texas triangle on the East side of Texas being developed. It's honestly surprising when you drive into any part of that triangle. Traffic just starts getting heavier and heavier. The solar is a huge deal. I'd guess there's 35,000 acres of new solar withing 45 minutes of me. I'm 5 minutes from the biggest solar farm in the Nation. Our County Commissioner told me Monday another 25,000 acres of solar was coming in. It's not good. Hardly any jobs or revenue other than to the land owners.
The same is true from Just south of Bexar up 100 miles north and East of Austin.
Then the runout west and North of Ft Worth will be next.
Watch where H-E-B plans builds for it's next superstores..those are indicators where the next urban upheaval will be.
You can swing a dead skunk around here without hitting a roofing or plumbing contrcator on his way to a new subdivision.
 
The county tax appraiser and the county tax assessor/collectors are driving and encouraging it.
Even with homestead exemption, the counties make way more tax revenue off subdivisions with 8 new $300,000 houses on an acre than they did off that same acre in pasture...with an ag exemption.
Seems like bad economics to me. Those 8 houses will require $$$$ for schools, roads, solid waste systems, water and all those expensive infrastructure things. Land with an ag exemption does not put much demand on the county for services.

Promote more development and get more tax dollars coming in. But spend all that and more on increased services required for all those people. Solution - more development to get more tax dollars. A pyramid scheme.
 
The developers pay for the close by roads and access to main roads. The roads and services would be pretty much a one time expense, but the counties usually don't pay for it. But, even if they did, the countys' revenue stream goes on (comes in) forever, every year.
 

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