Ring the Bell

[mwj]

You obviously do not know either. Throw out some bait so you can snipe at other peoples answers is not ringing the bell.

Post #7 in this thread and I stand by what I posted.

 

[Lucky]

Let's just post some pics of your cattle. 2 yr old heifer calved this morning. Bought not raised. Hopefully she make a fine cow.

 

[Travlr]

Post #7 in this thread and I stand by what I posted.

It is very easy to make a keyboard profit where there are only 2 variables and 75 bucks from top to bottom on brood cows. Thanks again for the words of wisdom.

ps

don't forget your earplugs while you are ''ringing'' that bell!

I didn't highlight the post above. That was done by the author. And this was the first post after the OP. We have @mwj to thank for #2. And he still hasn't answered the questions in the OP.

So basically... you don't know.

You obviously do not know either. Throw out some bait so you can snipe at other peoples answers is not ringing the bell.

 

[Dave]

Which then begs the question, how do you judge the quality of a cow. What makes one better than the other?

Well here is the original question. Before answering it I will again tell that my steers 2 years ago were split into 3 groups by size. Two of those groups were the top selling calves in that size that day. I went and looked up what my biggest steers brought this year and the market report for that day. Again I topped the market that day. In my mind that qualifies as "Ringing the Bell".

So how do I judge the cows I buy. Good feet and legs. She has to move good. A decent udder, not too small, a sling bag, or big teats. Not too fat or too thin. I want them to gain some weight. Not lose 150 pounds when they go to the hills. Preg checked to calf in my window (Feb/Mar). And I prefer that I am paying one bid over kill price. I will go a bit higher but not too much. This year with cow prices what they are I averaged paying $1.196 a lb on 60 cows who averaged weighing 1,250. Will they win any beauty contests? NO. But last year I profited nearly $1,000 per cow I sold. That includes covering the cost of 2 which I bought that died before calving and the feed cost into 4 who lost their calves and got sold early.

 

[Travlr]

Well here is the original question. Before answering it I will again tell that my steers 2 years ago were split into 3 groups by size. Two of those groups were the top selling calves in that size that day. I went and looked up what my biggest steers brought this year and the market report for that day. Again I topped the market that day. In my mind that qualifies as "Ringing the Bell".

So how do I judge the cows I buy. Good feet and legs. She has to move good. A decent udder, not too small, a sling bag, or big teats. Not too fat or too thin. I want them to gain some weight. Not lose 150 pounds when they go to the hills. Preg checked to calf in my window (Feb/Mar). And I prefer that I am paying one bid over kill price. I will go a bit higher but not too much. This year with cow prices what they are I averaged paying $1.196 a lb on 60 cows who averaged weighing 1,250. Will they win any beauty contests? NO. But last year I profited nearly $1,000 per cow I sold. That includes covering the cost of 2 which I bought that died before calving and the feed cost into 4 who lost their calves and got sold early.

You and I have both made a business model of one and dones. I really respect your way of doing things, and see how your description fits your end game. The "Not too fat or too thin.", is probably important for a few reasons I can think of.

 

[Dave]

Too thin when you are buying older cows can be a sign that things might not go well. Too fat along with the weight she will lose can be a sing that she didn't raise much of a calf last year. Maybe that she didn't even raise a calf last year. Also buying cows at a little over kill price that fat cow will cost more per pound and and weighs more so she cost more. Can I buy cows for a little more money. Sure. Will those cows make me any more money? Not in my experience.
Cows will die. It happens. The longer you have been in this business and the more cows you have the more you will get to see this. That ideal cow which cost more will also hurt more if she goes tits up on you.

 

[Silver]

Too thin when you are buying older cows can be a sign that things might not go well. Too fat along with the weight she will lose can be a sing that she didn't raise much of a calf last year. Maybe that she didn't even raise a calf last year. Also buying cows at a little over kill price that fat cow will cost more per pound and and weighs more so she cost more. Can I buy cows for a little more money. Sure. Will those cows make me any more money? Not in my experience.
Cows will die. It happens. The longer you have been in this business and the more cows you have the more you will get to see this. That ideal cow which cost more will also hurt more if she goes tits up on you.

I think what I've learned on this thread is that what we want is a dead cow. Very feed efficient, very low inputs, how could she not be profitable

 

[Travlr]

Too thin when you are buying older cows can be a sign that things might not go well. Too fat along with the weight she will lose can be a sing that she didn't raise much of a calf last year. Maybe that she didn't even raise a calf last year. Also buying cows at a little over kill price that fat cow will cost more per pound and and weighs more so she cost more. Can I buy cows for a little more money. Sure. Will those cows make me any more money? Not in my experience.
Cows will die. It happens. The longer you have been in this business and the more cows you have the more you will get to see this. That ideal cow which cost more will also hurt more if she goes tits up on you.

When I first began buying old cows with the idea to get replacement heifers from them I was amazed at how well the BM and SM cows did. I'd thought being toothless meant they couldn't be thrifty and efficient. And I also learned to watch their body condition carefully as they went through the year, and it was a major factor in when to resell. I can also see why spending a little more wouldn't work as well for your purposes. Yours was a true one and done. Mine was looking for better quality because the heifers I was interested in would be resold. And you putting them out on your type of real estate doesn't allow much close oversight, so I can see how you'd lose older cows.

If I was back in Arkansas I think I might try your model.

 

[MACVSOG]

Agree 100%!!! I enjoy all in knowledge and information from both of you guys and from it I create my own thoughts that likely neither of you would share and that's all good!!!

at this point i was thinking; back to back, 10 paces turn and fire. still entertaining.

 

[Dave]

at this point i was thinking; back to back, 10 paces turn and fire. still entertaining.

They would probably just have blanks

 

[MACVSOG]

hmm. then we still have no definitive winner. probably better that way and so the discussion continues.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

Everybody has a different program, there's no cover all silver bullets. Daves program works well for him, Silver and Gcreek obviously have programs that work too and there all different. My friend up the road sells 12-month-old Lim-Flex heifers and bulls for $3200 on a regular basis. It obviously works for her. Kind of like should beans be in chili.

 

[MACVSOG]

just wondering if you are familiar with medford area.
response neither expected nor required.

 

[Heronfish]

I think what I've learned on this thread is that what we want is a dead cow. Very feed efficient, very low inputs, how could she not be profitable

They can be quite profitable when they're hanging on a hook. Not great in the bone pile.

 

[AmandaQ]

Okay... so are there people here that don't know?
I look at one guys cows and wonder why he bothers... and another guys cows and wish I had some of them. And I look at the results in the sale ring and wonder why the one guy isn't trying to learn from the other guy.
It's great to buy a good bull and get good calves from it regardless of the cows you have, but the bull is only half of the genetics. Is it hard for people to choose better animals?
Sorry if I thought there would be some use to this thread.

This is a red angus cow. I used this image because it's easier to see the strengths and flaws in an image of a red cow. If people don't know what her strengths and flaws are and how they translate to more dollars, then wouldn't they like to learn? The difference between a successful operation and a hobby farm may be the difference between someone being able to pick good stock and not.

I would like to learn.

 

[Travlr]

I would like to learn.

Thanks... so would I.

 

[PPRM]

I've noticed that there seems to be two different mind sets in how people buy and use a cow to make money. One, and probably the most popular, is to find the cheapest cow you can find and throw the best bull on her you can afford to make as good a calf as you can get with a cheap cow. The other mind set is to buy the best quality cows you can afford and again, use the best bull you can afford. From what I've seen on CT, it seems like more people buy cows based on final price than on quality.

It seems to me that one strategy is going to be more likely to ring the bell at the sale barn/private treaty than the other, just about every time. So I guess the question is, does buying cheap cows end up making more profit... or does a few more pennies per pound to buy better cows justify the added expense?

I always liked to ring the bell and have the best price for the day when selling because I always felt it cost the same money to raise a cheap calf as it did to raise a bell ringer... except for the price of the cow. A nickel a pound more on a 1500 pound cow is $75 to get a better calf raiser, and if she lasts for several calves I think she pays for herself and then some. I figure the calf from the better cow is going to wean heavier and have more muscle, and might be twenty cents more valuable per pound in the sale ring.

Which then begs the question, how do you judge the quality of a cow. What makes one better than the other?

Here's my two cents on the value of a cow.

If I'm buying heifers, I look at epd's such as MCE, longevity, docility and marbling. I want a productive cow that works for me. My primary cow herd is very little work.

I also want a moderate cow. 1600 don't wean bigger calves.

Splitting pairs and buying breds is a different world. I'm looking at the cows salvage value and the calf's value. I'm seldom looking to add to my herd.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

just wondering if you are familiar with medford area.
response neither expected nor required.

In my best Willis voice "are you talking to me"?

 

[Dave]

In my best Willis voice "are you talking to me"?

Maybe to me. I am in the same state as Medford.

 

[Ebenezer]

They would probably just have blanks

And no pictures.