Ring the Bell

[Travlr]

They may have access to the same resources. That doesn't mean that they utilize the same amount of those resources.

It doesn't mean they don't, either.

If you have two 1200 pound cows in the same pasture, tell me why you would cull the one with the 600 pound calf as opposed to the one with the five hundred pound calf... all else being equal.

Maybe the cow with the bigger calf eats thirty pounds more feed a week, that translates to an extra pound of calf every week? Do you think that gain is expensive when the feed is sitting there in the field to be eaten? And is the cow with the light calf costing you more because she's not eating that available feed and making a heavier calf?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

It doesn't mean they don't, either.

If you have two 1200 pound cows in the same pasture, tell me why you would cull the one with the 600 pound calf as opposed to the one with the five hundred pound calf... all else being equal.

If I have 2 cows with live calves in field one at 600 and one at 500lb and they have met my other criteria (bred back, maintaining condition, etc) I'm not culling anybody.

But to answer your straw grasp hypothetical. What is your cost to produce that 30lbs of extra grass a week? That doesn't get produced on pixy dust and unicorn farts. It takes land, fertilizer, fence, water, etc. You have the business all figured out so what is your cost to produce 1lb of grass?

 

[Travlr]

If I have 2 cows with live calves in field one at 600 and one at 500lb and they have met my other criteria (bred back, maintaining condition, etc) I'm not culling anybody.

But to answer your straw grasp hypothetical. What is your cost to produce that 30lbs of extra grass a week? That doesn't get produced on pixy dust and unicorn farts. It takes land, fertilizer, fence, water, etc. You have the business all figured out so what is your cost to produce 1lb of grass?

Sorry, but you are the one that has your forage all figured out... so you tell me. And how much is that grass worth if it just lays down in the field and rots?

C'mon... ante up...

 

[Silver]

A cows job is to turn grass into beef. I don't see the logic in punishing her for doing her job. Grass might well be an expense, but it's also an investment. If that investment is providing a positive ROI then it becomes self defeating to cull a cow based on input costs alone.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Sorry, but you are the one that has your forage all figured out... so you tell me. And how much is that grass worth if it just lays down in the field and rots?

C'mon... ante up...

That grass can be worth a lot left standing. There is no such thing as wasted grass/hay if it's out on the ground feeding the soil. Too many guys see standing grass and see "waste", I see an investment in the future of my soils.

My while point is you had YOUR operation figured out for your location and markets, etc

What if my market is hot for 500lb animals and tanks at 600lb? Then why shoot for 600lb ww?

The whole "best cow" "bell ringer" "most profitable" is different for everyone and you can't seem to wrap your head around that. Your stuck on what supposedly worked for you.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Rmc]

It doesn't mean they don't, either.

If you have two 1200 pound cows in the same pasture, tell me why you would cull the one with the 600 pound calf as opposed to the one with the five hundred pound calf... all else being equal.

Maybe the cow with the bigger calf eats thirty pounds more feed a week, that translates to an extra pound of calf every week? Do you think that gain is expensive when the feed is sitting there in the field to be eaten? And is the cow with the light calf costing you more because she's not eating that available feed and making a heavier calf?

You say all things being equal . Then you point out that that cow will be less feed efficient. Because all things aren't equal , not only will a higher milk producing cow require more feed they also require higher quality feed . So feed is a double whammy .
Many reasons to cull the cow that has a higher feed requirement . Just a few of wich are reduced stocking rate , increased cost to over winter , lower body condition score , reduced fertility, reduced number of years retained in the herd. You can disagree with these all you want but research says different. Increased milk costs , body condition score , fertility, longevity , and stocking rate , increased feed cost per cow .

 

[Brute 23]

Some thing that is kind of funny, here, is you get the paper for ringing the bell for that weight, like 550-600s, it's based on $/lb. That usually requires kind of a leaner calf than I take in. That's a measurement of what is most profitable for the buyer, not the seller. The naturally fleshy calves I take in are usually an nickel, possibly a dime back, at certain times, off the high. When you have $3+ lbs, it better to just pack the pounds of flash on.

 

[Travlr]

That grass can be worth a lot left standing. There is no such thing as wasted grass/hay if it's out on the ground feeding the soil.

My while point is you had YOUR operation figured out for your location and markets, etc

What if my market is hot for 500lb animals and tanks at 600lb? Then why shoot for 600lb ww?

The whole "best cow" "bell ringer" "most profitable" is different for everyone and you can't seem to wrap your head around that. Your stuck on what supposedly worked for you.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The OP asked this: How do you judge the quality of a cow. What makes one better than the other?

How is that being stuck on what worked best for me? This entire thread has devolved into exceptions based on inputs and variables that don't apply to the original question... and no one has yet to answer that original question based on their own criteria. If you have two cows and consider one better for you than the other, then answer the question.

But if avoiding the question and polluting the thread with non-essentials makes you feel smarter... go for it.

 

[Travlr]

You say all things being equal . Then you point out that that cow will be less feed efficient. Because all things aren't equal , not only will a higher milk producing cow require more feed they also require higher quality feed . So feed is a double whammy .
Many reasons to cull the cow that has a higher feed requirement . Just a few of wich are reduced stocking rate , increased cost to over winter , lower body condition score , reduced fertility, reduced number of years retained in the herd. You can disagree with these all you want but research says different. Increased milk costs , body condition score , fertility, longevity , and stocking rate , increased feed cost per cow .

Okay... then tell me you factor in each of those criteria on every cow you've owned. Tell me THAT. Tell me you look at every cow you've ever owned and you can relate every one of those factors on each one.

 

[Heronfish]

The OP asked this: How do you judge the quality of a cow. What makes one better than the other?

How is that being stuck on what worked best for me? This entire thread has devolved into exceptions based on inputs and variables that don't apply to the original question... and no one has yet to answer that original question based on their own criteria. If you have two cows and consider one better for you than the other, then answer the question.

But if avoiding the question and polluting the thread with non-essentials makes you feel smarter... go for it.

Once again, you're beating the long dead horse.

Which cow is better? the one that earns the most profit.
I know you cannot wrap your head around it, but a scrub brush nothing cow can be very profitable and that beautiful, phenotypically perfect, heavy milker can be a money pit.

 

[crossbreed]

That would be a loosing bet to you in many instances. Pound increase takes feed . Feed costs money.
Higher milk production or milk fat = more feed , more feed =more money.
Other option is more days on feed / more pounds of feed consumption = more money.
I have discussed multiple times how weaning earlier at lighter weights was more profitable. Earlier weaning means cows go into winter in better condition. Also means a month less feed consumption by calves is available for cows = smaller feed bill since grass won't grow very well under snow.
Selling earlier also gives you advantage of selling at higher demand /less supply then selling later during the glut when everyone else is selling calves.

That's an interesting viewpoint. Thanks for introducing it to the conversation. I've always tried to keep cow numbers a little low in case of low grass and keep calves to around 800 or so. Might have to rethink. I've got a third of my cows getting some age and they are all 1400+. Might be able to increase numbers with lighter replacements and sell calves younger.

 

[Lucky]

I'm calving out a set of 25 Angus heifers right now. Yesterday we moved them from a place 10 miles away to there new home for the next 6-7 months. Three days ago Heifer #12 lost it's calf at birth, it looked too small to me. This morning Heifer #14 is hunting all over for it's calf (born two days ago) and #12 has had a calf with it all morning. If #12 is able to pull off stealing #14's calf during the move how will I ever figure out which cow made more money? What if they both raise the little guy?

 

[crossbreed]

Yea that's what I'm not going to do. Too lazy I guess.

When they sell as a group something brings that avg up or down. Might be 1 calf in a group of 20 they don't like as much so it cost you a penny.

We sold 23 cull cows Wednesday. I weighed them in the chute to get an idea and then hauled them to the sale. I did actually pick up my check on sale day instead of letting them mail it. I don't know which cow brought what exactly. There was a few that I could pick out on the sale sheet but at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

Question if I may? Why would you have cull cows in January? Open? Lost calves?

 

[crossbreed]

I'm calving out a set of 25 Angus heifers right now. Yesterday we moved them from a place 10 miles away to there new home for the next 6-7 months. Three days ago Heifer #12 lost its calf at birth, it looked too small to me. This morning Heifer #14 is hunting all over for its calf (born two days ago) and #12 has had a calf with it all morning. If #12 is able to pull off stealing #14's calf during the move how will I ever figure out which cow made more money? What if they both raise the little guy?

Will you be keeping #12 or ship her since she's nor profitable for 2 years now

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Question if I may? Why would you have cull cows in January? Open? Lost calves?

I'm not Lucky but I fall calve most of my herd. Preg check in January and cull the open/late cows. I don't have a market for the culls until spring but if I did they would be gone tomorrow. Ha

 

[GoWyo]

Hay line this morning. Had to feed the bell ringers. I think most of them are bell ringers, in my mind anyway. LOL. Running out of grass in this pasture.

 

[crossbreed]

You got $5 a pound for 300 pound calves? Or you sold more than one calf... and got $1500 total?

Waurika okla sold 300 to $5 and 400 to $4.90 last week

 

[crossbreed]

I'm not Lucky but I fall calve most of my herd. Preg check in January and cull the open/late cows. I don't have a market for the culls until spring but if I did they would be gone tomorrow. Ha

lol well. DUH!!! Thank you my brain never considered fall calving. I'm sure you don't want calf freezing to the ground wher you are. There are folks who fall calve down here.

 

[Travlr]

Once again, you're beating the long dead horse.

Which cow is better? the one that earns the most profit.
I know you cannot wrap your head around it, but a scrub brush nothing cow can be very profitable and that beautiful, phenotypically perfect, heavy milker can be a money pit.

Then tell me why...

I just don't buy that two cows with the same inputs, and one produces a calf a hundred pound heavier at weaning, is eating so much extra grass to build the larger calf that she's the bad choice.

If that's the case we should all be choosing cows that wean 400 pound calves.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

lol well. DUH!!! Thank you my brain never considered fall calving. I'm sure you don't want calf freezing to the ground wher you are. There are folks who fall calve down here.

Fall is a relative term. Calves start dropping first week of August and into mid September. So by the time real winter sets in they are fairly good size and hardy.