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1. Breed/calve in the first two cycles.
2. Thrive on whatever hay/pasture/trees they are provided. There's no supplemental feeding here even at -30.
3. Need to calve and raise the calf unassisted.
4. Temperament has to be good. No crazys here.
5. Sound feet and udder.

If I was space/resource limited then I may get more picky from there.
this is almost verbatim my criteria. This year because I'm maxed on space, I also culled a few for consistently low weaning weights, but ordinarily even that isnt a big concern for me.
 
1. Breed/calve in the first two cycles.
2. Thrive on whatever hay/pasture/trees they are provided. There's no supplemental feeding here even at -30.
3. Need to calve and raise the calf unassisted.
4. Temperament has to be good. No crazys here.
5. Sound feet and udder.

If I was space/resource limited then I may get more picky from there.
At the very least I'd be adding weaning a calf at 600 pounds.
 
Weaning weights are something I really wonder about. Our avg over a 90 day calving period is 550#. I know a few guys that wean 600 -650 # calves consistently. Not to second guess anyone because it's not that hard to guess in the ballpark but I wonder how many actually have scales to get accurate weights. Scales aren't a real eye opener but they are surprising at times and tell the real story.
 
I've had scales for 10+ years and weight all my animals everytime they are worked and sometimes even I'm shocked by the weights. Eyeballs can be deceived fairly easily sometimes.
I was driving through Preston Idaho on my way back from a road trip to the coast, and wanted to check out the sale barn I'd heard was there. It turned out that it was closed for good... due to an outfit setting up scales and corrals across the street and buying everything that anyone would bring in. (That outfit closed a lot of sale barns back then and I don't know of any that ever reopened when the competitor went out of business.)
So I saw the scales and corrals and a guy pulling up with a trailer, and I went across the street to see what was going on. There was a help wanted sign in the window.
The guy looked up and put me on ignore immediately. A long haired kid in shorts, flip-flops, and a loud Hawaiian shirt didn't interest him much.
I asked about the job and he said they needed someone to go out to buy cattle at the farm. No scales, just cash based on what the buyer thought they weighed. And then he shut up and watched the trailer being unloaded. I was on ignore again.
The gate opened to the scales from the unloading pen and I said, "Four Charolaise heifers, and they'll go 615.", and the guy gives me a sidewise look with a lifted eyebrow.
The heifers weighed 620 and I was just as surprised as he was, but I tried not to show it. He offered me the job but I was still in college down in Logan, going to school with Jack Ford, the President's son and kind of intimidated by the security guys standing in the corners as we passed a doobie around. But that's another story...
 
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After weighing my cows dozens and dozens of times I'm fairly close with guesses. But every now and then one will throw me for a loop.

Ran 60ish heifers thru last Sunday to preg check. There was about 5 in the group that appeared to look and weigh the same as the rest of the group. But all 5 were around 100lb heavier than the rest. Not sure where they were hiding it. I even ran them thru twice because 4 sets of eyeballs didn't believe the scales the first time thru.
 
At the very least I'd be adding weaning a calf at 600 pounds.
So when you had a herd of mommas, you were averaging 600 pound weaning weights? We are talking 205ish days? How big were your cows and what kind of EPD/type bulls were you using? Purebred or crossbreeding?

I can say that a 600 lbs. replacement heifer with the kind of genetics I think will make a long-lasting fertile, easy keeping heifer would be a very rare one. I also dont creep or supplement calves with anything and am just as happy for them to take their time developing.
 
We are weighing calves next week. They've been weaned for 60 days. It'll be interesting to see how much They've gained. I'm pretty good at guessing cows and bulls but calves will easily fool you.
 
If someone is buying what they call "less expensive," it kind of implies a sacrifice, doesn't it? What would be the sacrifice, if not quality ...
Whatever quality is for them. But I would assume "breed standard" would be an indicator of quality to some degree.

No?
Not really. I fall calve so what I do is buy open spring cows for a little bit over slaughter price and put them into my fall program.
 
So when you had a herd of mommas, you were averaging 600 pound weaning weights? We are talking 205ish days? How big were your cows and what kind of EPD/type bulls were you using? Purebred or crossbreeding?

I can say that a 600 lbs. replacement heifer with the kind of genetics I think will make a long-lasting fertile, easy keeping heifer would be a very rare one. I also dont creep or supplement calves with anything and am just as happy for them to take their time developing.
I've done a lot of experimenting over the years. I started out buying crossbred heifers from a place in Arkansas (Peterson Farms) that bred the biggest Santa Gertrudis I've ever seen. I also bought Limousin from O'Brian Farms in Pineville Mo. And yeah, I was getting some big weaning weights crossing with Belgian Blue and Chianina from imported semen.

At the place in SD I was doing an entirely different business model, buying bred cows culled for age from good ranches (Usually through the sale barn) that had high weaning weights (I knew this because I visited the ranches and saw what kind of calves they were getting), and raising replacement heifers to sell back to them from their own cows. By using the old cows I was already getting high fertility and longevity and good weaning weights or they would have been culled earlier. If they lasted beyond the initial calf I'd AI to a bull from an older cow for the longevity and good maternals and weaning/yearling weights. It wasn't complicated.

And I've never supplemented a calf. They either grew well on the cow and grass, or the cow was down the road.
 
Well I was hoping that people would chime in with their own ideas... but it seems that's not happening, so I appreciate the question and I'll go ahead and give you my take on it.

1. Fertility, the cow breeds in her first cycle consistently.
2. Maternal. The cow drops a calf unassisted, accepts the calf and protects it, and has the milk it takes to feed the calf.
3. Growth. The cow has the genetics to compliment what a bull provides to make a calf that grows.
4. Muscle. We are in the meat business and that's what buyers filling feedlots are looking for.
5. Docility. We need to work our animals without getting killed.
6. Since we have an artificial premium/dock situation for color, a cow needs to throw a black calf.
7. Easy keeping. An animal that lays on some fat as the grass comes on and doesn't loose weight easily. A cow that retains teeth, that lasts in the hard times, and remains fertile.

As far as the phenotype that makes a great cow, she needs length and a deep body. A straight topline, feminine head and front quarters, and hips built to accommodate calving. Clean brisket without any excess fat and no pad of fat at the tailhead. A tailhead that isn't higher than the topline. An udder with some volume, good attachments, and a flat bottom, and some space between moderately sized teats. As a younger animal especially, she needs to show some thickness. Muscle that rounds the butt and goes deep into the hock, and some fullness in the loin. Back legs with some angle and feet that are solid with no interference or unusual toe growth or shape.

You can throw some ear on in southern states and tighter skin in northern states.

A cow that fits these criteria in a herd of like cows, and that throws calves that mimic her own characteristics, will outperform any mixed bunch... all else being equal.
Is this is your business plan? You taking it to the banker?
Personally, I believe that you can make money with this plan if you have a good job in town and you don't overstock your regular paycheck.
 
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Didn't you say you had a 3 or 400 hd herd and guaranteed $3 a pound at weaning? I guess your the John Dutton of the area. I'm confused 😕
Well, I guess if I am John Dutton, then you must be Jimmy! :) The answer to your two questions is "no" and "no". You can read it on page 8, if you really want to know. Those cattle are 200 miles south, in south-central Georgia. Lot different down there, than up here in the foothills north of Atlanta. Lots of places with way over 500 head. You are seeing more and more big places with a lot of cattle down there every year, mainly due to the programs to buy your seed, fertilizer, and fencing to turn row crop land. into pasture for cattle.
 
You ought to come down here some day and watch. The vast majority of calves come from people with 5 or less cows. A 20 cow operation is a good sixed, operation. 50 cows and up, is like the 6666 ranch down here, Not many of them. Head cattle are sometimes sold in a 2 or 3 cow group, if the owners asks for it. But you always bid on one, and bidder takes as many as he wants. Usually just the best one, unless they sold for less than what the worst one is worth And if you are bidding on a group of cows, you always bid on the worst one. And the winning bidder gets to pick the best one of the three, so he gets the best deal. He is getting the best cow for what the worst one is worth. You almost never see a "group" of calves sold by the pound. If they were, they'd bring what the worst one was worth. The sale I go to every week just about closest to my house, the first hour and a half is spent selling the 100-200 goats and 100-200 sheep that are there every week. Then a horse or pony or donkey or two. Then about 15-30 minutes on what hogs are there. The head cattle sell next, and there you have people stand up and tell about them, or the auctioneer will tell about them if the owner isn't there. Age, vet records, pregnancy status, ( but that is usually marked by the vet, too) , what bull she is bred too, etc. After those, the weigh cattle start, and these are run through one at a time, spending 1- 3 seconds each in the ring. The announcer calls out heifer or steer (or bull) calf and starts the bidding. There no "pot loads" brought in, and no buyers trying to fill a semi load. Calves are trailer weaned at 6 mos or so. Once the weigh cattle starts, there will be handful of people buying them. Usually the owners of other sale barns. They take them home and condition them, til they get a load to send off to a feeder. Or to a sale out west like you are used to, that sells feeders.
Same here, you'll see them sort a few that are alike and from same seller and run through together but most are sold as singles no matter quality or who they came from. Our cow herds are similar in size to y'all, mostly small operators with a few cows and sell a few calves at a time when they're weaned. A lot of the calves bought at our sale barn is someone putting groups together and straighten out then ship to sell in either Oklahoma City or West Plains Missouri.
 
Well, I guess if I am John Dutton, then you must be Jimmy!
Lol that's pretty funny. I'm not a fictional character that makes stuff up though. Just a regular guy with a regular cow herd trying to make things better. I do know my calves with top $3 right now without some mysterious buyer that wants Corriente x Red Charlois cross calves out of $115 cows.
 
So when you had a herd of mommas, you were averaging 600 pound weaning weights? We are talking 205ish days? How big were your cows and what kind of EPD/type bulls were you using? Purebred or crossbreeding?

I can say that a 600 lbs. replacement heifer with the kind of genetics I think will make a long-lasting fertile, easy keeping heifer would be a very rare one. I also dont creep or supplement calves with anything and am just as happy for them to take their time developing.
This is his ''theoretical'' herd. You can not bring actual figures to this discussion and escape unquestioned. Could and what if are the predominate EPDs.
 
Lol that's pretty funny. I'm not a fictional character that makes stuff up though. Just a regular guy with a regular cow herd trying to make things better. I do know my calves with top $3 right now without some mysterious buyer that wants Corriente x Red Charlois cross calves out of $115 cows.
If you don't like that story he change change it real quick for you? It's made to order. 🤣

$3 is low. I wouldn't contract any thing at that price unless it's over #700 or some thing.
 

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