Right to work?

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Caustic Burno":1eozu5j4 said:
Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.
CB i might surprise you! i have never done anything that put one of my co-workers in danger!

no i have never faced hard times things are smooth sailing for me! though my boss would be in big legal trouble if the wrong people found out how many hours i work in a week! but that's non of their business!!!

CB and BD your eyes are half closed you only see what you want to see

what you see is the fact that there were hard times! people being miss treated! beaten and killed! under payed! and over worked!

what you are denying is the FACT that those company's were private property! that those men agreed to work there under those conditions (be going to work there you accept the terms) that they were trespassing when they would not leave the private properties! that they beat or killed anyone willing to work! and that there was opportunity other places


and yes redistribution of wealth is socialism!
 
callmefence":2vahhzan said:
Caustic Burno":2vahhzan said:
Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.


A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...
:nod:
 
Bestoutwest":3myx5mvm said:
ez14.":3myx5mvm said:
boondocks":3myx5mvm said:
i am not arguing the EXTREMELY bad working conditions or the lives lost to them! i am arguing against what you state as fact that theft was the only (and necessary) way for anything better

I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:

Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling

You're right, you're not trolling. You're just completely, whether it's willful or not, missing the point. Go back and read some history. Watch The Mine Wars, from PBS. Do it with an open mind. I think you'll finally see that the business man is not always so upstanding.[/quote]


go watch "the men who built america"! and you are 100% right the business man is not always upstanding most people aren't we live in a evil world with people always trying to take advantage of others only worried about making them selves better off! (even in the unions :eek: ..... :roll: ) so you should grow a pair and learn to look out for yourself.... wow ain't that that a shocker quite a novel idea looking out for yourself
 
ez14.":yhzvksi5 said:
Bestoutwest":yhzvksi5 said:
ez14.":yhzvksi5 said:
I am really struggling to believe you are not just trolling here.
So, I guess when you negotiate the sale price of a cow, you are thereby stealing?
When you put in a counter-bid on a house, you are a thief?
When you don't pay the sticker price on a new car, you are a cheat?
There's not an emoji for my eyes rolling so hard they just fell out of my head, so I'll have to make do with an :roll: and a :bs:

By the way, I've been on these boards for years and have never used the BS flag until now. You earned it! :tiphat:

Boondocks lets say we make an agreement for me to buy one of your cows for $1000 so you get them all rounded up in a small pen so i can pick which one i want and when i get there i only have $500 then i say i'm going to get all your cows for that much! (i assume you would say heck no) so then i stand guard around your cows and beat anybody who tries to buy them or take care of them leaving you with two choices sell all your cows to me for $500 or kill them all

would that make me a thieve???

i'm not trolling

You're right, you're not trolling. You're just completely, whether it's willful or not, missing the point. Go back and read some history. Watch The Mine Wars, from PBS. Do it with an open mind. I think you'll finally see that the business man is not always so upstanding.


go watch "the men who built america"! and you are 100% right the business man is not always upstanding most people aren't we live in a evil world with people always trying to take advantage of others only worried about making them selves better off! (even in the unions :eek: ..... :roll: ) so you should grow a pair and learn to look out for yourself.... wow ain't that that a shocker quite a novel idea looking out for yourself[/quote]

Well, I do have a pair, big man. I had a career, took the risk and went back to college to change careers. When I graduated, I moved over 2000 miles for a job that paid more. I've taken the risks to better myself. I am not a union worker, nor am I necessarily pro union. I have watched a union destroy my old hometown.

What I'm saying, and others have tried too, is this: In a historical context unions have had a need and a place at the table.

Learn your history. Read a book, several even. Quit being so stubborn that you're unable to admit that, possibly, you're wrong on something.
 
Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..
 
callmefence":2w0bre0t said:
Caustic Burno":2w0bre0t said:
Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.


A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...


Usually it was over letting his alligator mouth and brain overload his hummingbird butt.
It doesn't take a lot of snap to figure out the business end of a shovel or a pair of post hole diggers
 
JSCATTLE":3uiunxre said:
Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..
Couldn't have said it better and I retired a company man.
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
 
Caustic Burno":13gfonnn said:
callmefence":13gfonnn said:
Caustic Burno":13gfonnn said:
Ez not socialism but reality.
You ever face hard times and I mean hard times with feeding a family or getting a sick baby medical care join this thread. There was a day when kids didn't live with mommy and daddy
until they were 30 or 40 .
There were no food stamps or welfare money or medical and all the free social safety nets you enjoy today.
I actually believe in helping my fellow American also in a mans right to work or join a union so until you get into the real world you have no clue of what your talking about.
I have went hungry to pay babies medical bills, crawled to work with pneumonia because of no sick leave to feed those babies.
Watched my wives family only survive because of wild game supplied by the men of the community .
Seen her family of four kids and a widow dam near starve to death after her dad was killed at work.
There was no SS, Medicaid and no death benefits the unions got that changed.
IMO you talking like a man with a paper a$$
Your ignorance on safety at work is evident I have no clue how many deaths I investigated. Most were caused by a fellow worker being lazy leaving a trap.
When you knock on a door to tell a wife her husband was killed at work or set with her in an ER until he dies you have no idea what your talking about.
If we were in the refinery I can see I would already fired you as your attitude on safety would make you one of the most unsafe on the jodsite.
Then I would watch you bawl like a baby as I have watched grown men do as security was escorting them out.
That is about the time reality hit them they just lost a 100k job over safety.


A grown man bawling over losing a 100,000 job is a perfect example of the kinda be nice that would be pro union...


Usually it was over letting his alligator mouth and brain overload his hummingbird butt.
It doesn't take a lot of snap to figure out the business end of a shovel or a pair of post hole diggers

No but it takes a good amount to make a good living out of it.
I guarantee I've got way more skills than you.
I handle welding, carpentry , concrete, metal buildings, sales, payroll, hiring , firing, taxes, estimating, bidding, billing, scheduling I can keep on....
Keep nursing .....one trick pony

Your a perfect example of education and no sense
 
i find it funny that you all are accusing me of being a history denier yet you will not speak to the historical facts i have put up??



again Henry Fords view on the union

Labor unions
Ford was adamantly against labor unions. He explained his views on unions in Chapter 18 of My Life and Work.[33] He thought they were too heavily influenced by some leaders who, despite their ostensible good motives, would end up doing more harm than good for workers. Most wanted to restrict productivity as a means to foster employment, but Ford saw this as self-defeating because, in his view, productivity was necessary for any economic prosperity to exist.

He believed that productivity gains that obviated certain jobs would nevertheless stimulate the larger economy and thus grow new jobs elsewhere, whether within the same corporation or in others. Ford also believed that union leaders had a perverse incentive to foment perpetual socio-economic crisis as a way to maintain their own power. Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would maximize their own profits. Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact. But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as he could fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing.


i believe Henry Ford was a much smarter man then you or i! if any of us were smarter then him they would be a multi billionaire (around $199 billion with today's inflation)
 
Well, for those who get their history from watching TV or movies, perhaps watching (or reading) The Grapes of Wrath (by John Steinbeck) might be enlightening, if not entertaining.

Unions have/had a place and a purpose just as EPD's have a place and a purpose.

Until a person has actually lived/experienced a situation for themselves, it is difficult for them to truly understand/"see" it.
 
Caustic Burno":10pznwkd said:
JSCATTLE":10pznwkd said:
Ez you have absolutely no idea how a union works.. I'm union USW to be exact . You are arguing with people who have been or seen both sides .
Its not mandatory to be in the union where I work . The unit I work on makes over a million dollars a day . There are 12 of us at any given time at work.. we are hardly stealing from the company. Not just anyone can do my job . If you screw up and blow up a tower you will level 3 miles around the plant. We make ethylene oxide . Safety is first in everything we do . No such thing as safety coming naturally . There are things that could be better but our company prefers us to be union .
We actually make a dollar or so less than the non union plant thats 2 miles down the road. Union makes it easier for the company to negotiate money. They don't have to go to each person to give raises etc. Unions do help when you get older and slower .. the company can't fire you 3 years before you are retirement age just to get out of paying you the retirement .. company's are just as vindictive as unions. It's a balance and I'm glad we have that balance . There are 1500 applications for 1 Job every time the company hires.. we make alot of money for working half a year . But the company makes alot more . We also work in conditions that expose you to chemicals that cause cancer and other ailments. So in my opinion safety comes first production second..
Couldn't have said it better and I retired a company man.
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .
 
JSCATTLE":2aqez3bk said:
[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .[/quote]
The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.
 
TexasBred":3kinsf10 said:
JSCATTLE":3kinsf10 said:
[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .
The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.[/quote]
That's all they want to know Is if you can learn or not . Keeps them from endangering the workers and the community with bad hires.
 
JSCATTLE":eveu0z5w said:
TexasBred":eveu0z5w said:
JSCATTLE":eveu0z5w said:
[
JSC y'all will still hire without a degree?
We quit five years before I retired couldn't find enough with a HS diploma that could learn the chemistry or math.
No sir we have to have the degree to be hired . We did hire a guy a couple months ago without one but he was a maintenance contractor that has been on site for 12 years . He's been in every vessel we have several times .. but I has to go get the degree to be hired. Common sense isn't common anymore .. and that will get you alot farther than what's in a book .
The degree will at least show them you have the ability to learn. The rest will take care of it's self if you have the desire which you apparently had.
That's all they want to know Is if you can learn or not . Keeps them from endangering the workers and the community with bad hires.[/quote]

I figured as much before I retired we had 2000 applications for 25 I&E apprentice jobs. Only 200 passed basic math skills to advance. Got down to sixty for the final after drug testing and physical ability to do the job requirements.
 
Lenin and Marx would be so proud.
Up with the proletariat--down with the bourgeois!!

proletariat_unite_by_party9999999-d3136ld.png
 
ez, when you said you have never known hard times, that told me all I need to know. You've had CB tell you better than any documentary or book exactly why unions were important, especially early on. You've apparently never known grinding poverty or wondered where, despite all of your family's hard work, your next meal was coming from. Because I believe in karma, I hope that you never have to learn the hard way just how different things can seem when your life, and that of your loved ones, hangs on whether you can find enough pennies in the couch cushions to help put fifty cents in your mom's gas tank and all hope and pray she can make it to work one more day. And there's still a week to payday.

My son has been raised in relative comfort. But you better be d@mn sure he knows that he walks on the shoulders of giants--his grandparents, great-grandparents and others further back in time, scrapping and clawing, each successive generation eking out just a little better life for the next generation, than what they had. To the best of my ability, we've tried to raise him to honor the sacrifices of everyone who helped pave his way, many of whom were other people's ancestors. Heck, maybe even CB's. (Just not yours, I guess. Sorry, I'll make sure they're scratched from the list of people who ever thought they had a thing in common with their fellow working stiffs).

And, oh yeah, Henry Ford was ahead of his time (well,other than his virulent racist and anti-Semitic views https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... a5cfb2dd16), but his workplace policies were at least in part self-interested (he knew that productivity would increase if his workers weren't dead on their feet), and were driven by the LABOR UNREST at the time. Yes, factory workers were starting to push back and argue that they should get a fair shake. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -hour-week. Ol' Henry realized that he could avoid a lot of headaches; gain productivity; score a PR coup; and SELL MORE CARS with a decent wage and a 5 day week. (Do I really need to tell you that those changes didn't immediately get adopted by every company in every industry? Yes. Yes, I probably do).

I'd be really curious (well, not really, but I'll feign it) to hear your tortured (tortuous? maybe both...) view on exactly what the 146 people (mostly women and children) who died at the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire did to deserve it. As you are such a student of history, I'm sure you'll recall that the factory's exits (it occupied floors 8-10 of the Asch Building in NYC) were locked by management (as was common at the time, to prevent workers taking breaks). Here's a fun little excerpt of the event from a bystander:


"One Saturday afternoon in March of that year—March 25, to be precise—I was sitting at one of the reading tables in the old Astor Library....I was deeply engrossed in my book when I became aware of fire engines racing past the building...I ran out to see what was happening, and followed crowds of people to the scene of the fire.

A few blocks away, the Asch Building at the corner of Washington Place and Greene Street was ablaze. When we arrived at the scene, the police had thrown up a cordon around the area and the firemen were helplessly fighting the blaze. The eighth, ninth, and tenth stories of the building were now an enormous roaring cornice of flames.

Word had spread through the East Side, by some magic of terror, that the plant of the Triangle Waist Company was on fire and that several hundred workers were trapped. Horrified and helpless, the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

The emotions of the crowd were indescribable. Women were hysterical, scores fainted; men wept as, in paroxysms of frenzy, they hurled themselves against the police lines."


But I guess the workers "had it coming," since they had "accepted" the terms of their employment! ("Why didn't they just move?" I can hear you cry. Most were recent immigrants in their teens and early 20s. They HAD moved. To THERE! For what they hoped was a better life).

(Final footnote: Henry Ford's generous-for-the-time policies were enacted in 1926, well after the labor unrest that was caused by events like the above fire (which led to the Intl Ladies Garment Workers Union, which worked for safer working conditions). Labor pressures played a big role in Ford's "generosity").
 
boondocks":tgp0cqnh said:
ez, when you said you have never known hard times, that told me all I need to know. You've had CB tell you better than any documentary or book exactly why unions were important, especially early on. You've apparently never known grinding poverty or wondered where, despite all of your family's hard work, your next meal was coming from. Because I believe in karma, I hope that you never have to learn the hard way just how different things can seem when your life, and that of your loved ones, hangs on whether you can find enough pennies in the couch cushions to help put fifty cents in your mom's gas tank and all hope and pray she can make it to work one more day. And there's still a week to payday.

My son has been raised in relative comfort. But you better be d@mn sure he knows that he walks on the shoulders of giants--his grandparents, great-grandparents and others further back in time, scrapping and clawing, each successive generation eking out just a little better life for the next generation, than what they had. To the best of my ability, we've tried to raise him to honor the sacrifices of everyone who helped pave his way, many of whom were other people's ancestors. Heck, maybe even CB's. (Just not yours, I guess. Sorry, I'll make sure they're scratched from the list of people who ever thought they had a thing in common with their fellow working stiffs).

And, oh yeah, Henry Ford was ahead of his time (well,other than his virulent racist and anti-Semitic views https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... a5cfb2dd16), but his workplace policies were at least in part self-interested (he knew that productivity would increase if his workers weren't dead on their feet), and were driven by the LABOR UNREST at the time. Yes, factory workers were starting to push back and argue that they should get a fair shake. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... -hour-week. Ol' Henry realized that he could avoid a lot of headaches; gain productivity; score a PR coup; and SELL MORE CARS with a decent wage and a 5 day week. (Do I really need to tell you that those changes didn't immediately get adopted by every company in every industry? Yes. Yes, I probably do).

I'd be really curious (well, not really, but I'll feign it) to hear your tortured (tortuous? maybe both...) view on exactly what the 146 people (mostly women and children) who died at the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire did to deserve it. As you are such a student of history, I'm sure you'll recall that the factory's exits (it occupied floors 8-10 of the Asch Building in NYC) were locked by management (as was common at the time, to prevent workers taking breaks). Here's a fun little excerpt of the event from a bystander:


"One Saturday afternoon in March of that year—March 25, to be precise—I was sitting at one of the reading tables in the old Astor Library....I was deeply engrossed in my book when I became aware of fire engines racing past the building...I ran out to see what was happening, and followed crowds of people to the scene of the fire.

A few blocks away, the Asch Building at the corner of Washington Place and Greene Street was ablaze. When we arrived at the scene, the police had thrown up a cordon around the area and the firemen were helplessly fighting the blaze. The eighth, ninth, and tenth stories of the building were now an enormous roaring cornice of flames.

Word had spread through the East Side, by some magic of terror, that the plant of the Triangle Waist Company was on fire and that several hundred workers were trapped. Horrified and helpless, the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

The emotions of the crowd were indescribable. Women were hysterical, scores fainted; men wept as, in paroxysms of frenzy, they hurled themselves against the police lines."


But I guess the workers "had it coming," since they had "accepted" the terms of their employment! ("Why didn't they just move?" I can hear you cry. Most were recent immigrants in their teens and early 20s. They HAD moved. To THERE! For what they hoped was a better life).

(Final footnote: Henry Ford's generous-for-the-time policies were enacted in 1926, well after the labor unrest that was caused by events like the above fire (which led to the Intl Ladies Garment Workers Union, which worked for safer working conditions). Labor pressures played a big role in Ford's "generosity").

Old Henry was stupid when it come to being a father to Edsel never really appreciated him until Edsel died with cancer. Then old Henry lost all interest in life.
 
So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like hell to make it better for my kids.
 
Ky cowboy":cnljpgcm said:
So many spoon feds out there don't have a clue what it took to get where we are at now. I've had it good compared but my parents did like you boonedocks. Educated me to respect where we came from Ang fight like be nice to make it better for my kids.

:clap: You get it.
 
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