Right to work?

[Dave]

well my opinion my not be to popular here (and i know i'm young and haven't seen as much) but a employee has no right to tell a employer how much he will make or how much he will work they were not slaves they could leave if they didn't like the work or the pay! i don't like unions now and i don't like what the were back then either

It is never that simple. This is a complex social subject that has a history you have not had exposure to. There are two sides to a coin. There are four sides to a square. This subject has four sides.

It strikes at the very heart of mankind. I suggest you read some books of the sociology of the labor movement in America. This country has a unique history. The United States paved the Industrial highway much of it with the blood and bones of hard men whose only aspiration was to feed their kids.

You might change your tune when you know that white men in this country had it just as hard as any black man did.

BUT ..... the could walk off never to come back. It was there choice to be there !!!

They could walk away and many did. But you still needed to eat. So they found another job, often doing the same thing for an employer who treated them the same. The rich had powers to be on their side. In this state during the 1920's you could get 5 years in the state pen for simply wearing a union pin on your shirt.

 

[TexasBred]

It is never that simple. This is a complex social subject that has a history you have not had exposure to. There are two sides to a coin. There are four sides to a square. This subject has four sides.

It strikes at the very heart of mankind. I suggest you read some books of the sociology of the labor movement in America. This country has a unique history. The United States paved the Industrial highway much of it with the blood and bones of hard men whose only aspiration was to feed their kids.

You might change your tune when you know that white men in this country had it just as hard as any black man did.

BUT ..... the could walk off never to come back. It was there choice to be there !!!

They could walk away and many did. But you still needed to eat. So they found another job, often doing the same thing for an employer who treated them the same. The rich had powers to be on their side. In this state during the 1920's you could get 5 years in the state pen for simply wearing a union pin on your shirt.

Oh I realize that but they were "Free" to do these things. Slaves could not. My dad lived through some of those times, the great depression etc. and I've heard him tell some pretty good tales for times even that recent. Lots of work and very little pay.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

People walk then, and they can now. Like a wise man once said, "Walkin' ain't crowded."

 

[hurleyjd]

German companies have a good working relationship with their workers. Some union workers are on the board of directors. Remember the fiasco in Tenn. with VW.

 

[boondocks]

well my opinion my not be to popular here (and i know i'm young and haven't seen as much) but a employee has no right to tell a employer how much he will make or how much he will work they were not slaves they could leave if they didn't like the work or the pay! i don't like unions now and i don't like what the were back then either

Go watch The Mine Wars then report back please.....
You can't argue about how great employees have it today (and many would disagree with you of course) without understanding that, as CB says, your modern day pay and protection (oh, and not having to work 24/7/365 without a day off) was paid for in blood and misery.

 

[boondocks]

well my opinion my not be to popular here (and i know i'm young and haven't seen as much) but a employee has no right to tell a employer how much he will make or how much he will work they were not slaves they could leave if they didn't like the work or the pay! i don't like unions now and i don't like what the were back then either

It is never that simple. This is a complex social subject that has a history you have not had exposure to. There are two sides to a coin. There are four sides to a square. This subject has four sides.

It strikes at the very heart of mankind. I suggest you read some books of the sociology of the labor movement in America. This country has a unique history. The United States paved the Industrial highway much of it with the blood and bones of hard men whose only aspiration was to feed their kids.

You might change your tune when you know that white men in this country had it just as hard as any black man did.

You got that right many a man owed his soul to the company store.
The system didn't change out of a change in heart. Today's working conditions and lifestyle was paid for in blood

You got it CB. And maybe it's time for workers to fight back a bit.
Margonme, some women too! Triangle Shirtwaist Factory ring a bell?

 

[True Grit Farms]

well my opinion my not be to popular here (and i know i'm young and haven't seen as much) but a employee has no right to tell a employer how much he will make or how much he will work they were not slaves they could leave if they didn't like the work or the pay! i don't like unions now and i don't like what the were back then either

It is never that simple. This is a complex social subject that has a history you have not had exposure to. There are two sides to a coin. There are four sides to a square. This subject has four sides.

It strikes at the very heart of mankind. I suggest you read some books of the sociology of the labor movement in America. This country has a unique history. The United States paved the Industrial highway much of it with the blood and bones of hard men whose only aspiration was to feed their kids.

You might change your tune when you know that white men in this country had it just as hard as any black man did.

My grandparents never owned a house in there entire life. They worked hard and died young.

 

[HDRider]

Yes, it is right to work.. and be safe..

 

[john250]

Indiana passed Right To Work a few years ago. The Union presence was significant at the Statehouse. (I was there to lobby for the Ag Extension Service. We had lunch with some legislators, and then it was encouraged we go meet them in their offices. As a farm boy, I had a pocket knife which i willingly showed to the security guard. His reaction was like i had an UZI. He was tense, because the union protesters were trying to shut the place down, so I left the building (with my Knife) and went back home to cut some bale strings.

 

[Craig Miller]

Oilfield has never unionized and never will. The pay and safety have worked themselves out without them.

 

[kenny thomas]

I encourage anyone to watch same of the above. Harlan is one I am really familiar with. I work in the middle of where these things happened. As stated, the company owned your house, paid u in script coins that were only good at their company store. Everything u bought had to be bought there. Some even had company Doctors. You couldn't just move away, there was nothing to move with. People were very poor. The unions helped that but went too far.
I worked at a non-union mine in 1978 and the union mines nearby were on strike. We had armed guards protecting us as we loaded coal on the trains. The mine owner offered the striking miners same pay and benefits as the union mines but they let the mine close because the union would not allow it.
Union helped a lot of people but in the end a lot of coal mines closed because of it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Oilfield has never unionized and never will. The pay and safety have worked themselves out without them.

50% of the oil industry is unionized from production to distribution

 

[Craig Miller]

Oilfield has never unionized and never will. The pay and safety have worked themselves out without them.

50% of the oil industry is unionized from production to distribution

Your right. I should have specified. Drilling side.

 

[ez14.]

i've seen the mine wars and that is where most of my anti union thinking can from i knew i didn't like the union before that but that show got my blood pressure up! there was a bunch of people who didn't like what they had so instead of working for something better they stole what they wanted they disrupted the employee employer balance (which is not always right but will right itself so long as there is freedom to quit and freedom to fire) the union is evil has always been evil and as long as its around will always be evil that's really where the entitled attitude that is so often ridiculed on here really came from instead of working to make things right they just had a union come in and give them what they wanted! moving away from one of those coal mines would not have been easy but they put themselves in that tough spot it was nobody's job except theirs to get them out of that tough spot! if they didn't like it they should have moved on would it have been easy? no! would it have been impossible? absolutely not!

you will never find me working for a union! and if i were a business owner i would fire anybody who even said the word union!

 

[boondocks]

Wow you saw a different show than I did. I come from a long line of WV miners (and loggers). Before the unions came in, as the Mine Wars program shows,the miners were literally near-starving and tried to stick together to bargain for better wages. For daring to do so, they were hunted like animals by the police and military on the demand of the politicians, who were bought and sold by the mine owners.
You are looking at their options from a modern-day lens. They had no power, no assets, owned nothing but the clothes on their backs (if those). The mine in the next town over wasn't going to hire them--they were fired, then blackballed (if not beaten or killed) if they tried to negotiate a better wage. They were immediately thrown out of "their" homes (the company homes) if they were even suspected of trying to organize.The mine owners, business people and politicians stuck together; the miners had no choice but to try to do the same. Some paid a horrible price for it.
You think there was a natural, immutable "balance" between the mine owners and the employees before the unions came along? Miners were doin' just fine til those pesky unions came along and ruined it? :shock: History begs to differ. And my then-14 year old grandfather sure didn't think so and he was there so you'll pardon me for believing him, as there was never a harder-working man who lived.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Wow you saw a different show than I did. I come from a long line of WV miners (and loggers). Before the unions came in, as the Mine Wars program shows,the miners were literally near-starving and tried to stick together to bargain for better wages. For daring to do so, they were hunted like animals by the police and military on the demand of the politicians, who were bought and sold by the mine owners.
You are looking at their options from a modern-day lens. They had no power, no assets, owned nothing but the clothes on their backs (if those). The mine in the next town over wasn't going to hire them--they were fired, then blackballed (if not beaten or killed) if they tried to negotiate a better wage. They were immediately thrown out of "their" homes (the company homes) if they were even suspected of trying to organize.The mine owners, business people and politicians stuck together; the miners had no choice but to try to do the same. Some paid a horrible price for it.
You think there was a natural, immutable "balance" between the mine owners and the employees before the unions came along? Miners were doin' just fine til those pesky unions came along and ruined it? :shock: History begs to differ. And my then-14 year old grandfather sure didn't think so and he was there so you'll pardon me for believing him, as there was never a harder-working man who lived.

It was in the oil patch here and it was dad and us living it
I have lived it and worked both sides of the fence working conditions and wages didn't do a major shift until the 60's.
Today is just talk of men made of paper with their a$$hole blown out like a rose. Easy to talk tough when you weren't in or didn't fight.

 

[plumber_greg]

Right to work also means that unskilled laborers are gonna' build our schools and other public buildings.
Take away the unions and Joe, "I always wanted to be a contractor," can get the bid on your childrens' school building.
Joe goes to Home Depo, holds up five fingers and gets 5 Mexicans to jump in the back of his truck to tie the rebar and pour the concrete on the school roof.
Union shops have skilled people that passed an extensive test in order to be able to so that. THey are professionals. They went to a college the same as the school teachers. Theirs was just different, but they are also educated.
THe union paper pushers now fight for their members jobs, not so much their wages.
I am afraid that right to work is gonna' be passed, just as I am afraid of how much quality of work will also decline. In my opionion future generations will be sorry we passed that.
gs

 

[callmefence]

i've seen the mine wars and that is where most of my anti union thinking can from i knew i didn't like the union before that but that show got my blood pressure up! there was a bunch of people who didn't like what they had so instead of working for something better they stole what they wanted they disrupted the employee employer balance (which is not always right but will right itself so long as there is freedom to quit and freedom to fire) the union is evil has always been evil and as long as its around will always be evil that's really where the entitled attitude that is so often ridiculed on here really came from instead of working to make things right they just had a union come in and give them what they wanted! moving away from one of those coal mines would not have been easy but they put themselves in that tough spot it was nobody's job except theirs to get them out of that tough spot! if they didn't like it they should have moved on would it have been easy? no! would it have been impossible? absolutely not!

you will never find me working for a union! and if i were a business owner i would fire anybody who even said the word union!

I agree ez14. But your up against company men :lol: :hide:

I cant imagine how anyone could villianize a company for putting someone to work. Or how anyone thinks employees should have say in running the business, which is private property. Lots of people in history have had it hard and went elsewhere or Worked to make a different way work out. Your always free to leave.

Bad business will die on its on. Good will prosper.

Now to not be a hypocrite. I owe most of the life I live to a union man.
Red worked for RR his entire life.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Right to work also means that unskilled laborers are gonna' build our schools and other public buildings.
Take away the unions and Joe, "I always wanted to be a contractor," can get the bid on your childrens' school building.
Joe goes to Home Depo, holds up five fingers and gets 5 Mexicans to jump in the back of his truck to tie the rebar and pour the concrete on the school roof.
Union shops have skilled people that passed an extensive test in order to be able to so that. THey are professionals. They went to a college the same as the school teachers. Theirs was just different, but they are also educated.
THe union paper pushers now fight for their members jobs, not so much their wages.
I am afraid that right to work is gonna' be passed, just as I am afraid of how much quality of work will also decline. In my opionion future generations will be sorry we passed that.
gs

I'm not a union member but I built a lot of aluminum railing, gates and fence for the public. Building inspections and codes had to be met, and it didn't matter if you were union or not. Unions are all right if you like paying someone to work, and having someone telling you who to vote for. I quit the IBB because I don't like to be told who to vote for.
Some folks will do anything for a dollar.

 

[HDRider]

Oilfield has never unionized and never will. The pay and safety have worked themselves out without them.

I used to work for a company that had some oil related businesses. Attending a management class with a fellow that worked in the oil patch, I think the company was call Magabar or something like that. We were all asked to give a short description of our respective management styles. This guy said as briefly, or more so, than anyone else, "I fire a guy once a week so I keep everyone's attention." I'll always remember that.

Craig, you raise an interesting point. I wonder why the oil patch never unionized, maybe the time period it came into being? Past the need for unions?

I have worked factories that were union and non-union, in the north, and in the south. It is very easy to see how unions diminished America's ability to compete. I am not saying that is the sole reason, but it is maybe one.

I'd see a machinist set up his machine, and maybe turn a piece of metal for four or more hours. He would read the newspaper or a book while the machine turned the metal. I've seen a guy setup one machine, kick it off and let it run. Then he'd setup five more and tend them the whole day.

Anyone want to guess which one was union?