Rhetorical

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novaman":ic4tultr said:
msscamp":ic4tultr said:
dun":ic4tultr said:
When does a bull with obvious faults/problems become "good enough"?

When he can bring something valuable to the existing herd despite his obvious faults/problems.
Interesting take on the question. I can see your point but I still believe there are too many options to take a hit in one area in order to improve another.

I agree with you, but I would also ask that you consider this - a beginner just starting out does not necessarily have that option. He/she is usually limited by resources/finances, and has to find the best bull at a price they can afford. If the bull can improve their herd then it is a step up, and they can build from there as their situation improves.
 
msscamp":fjy9gwhd said:
I agree with you, but I would also ask that you consider this - a beginner just starting out does not necessarily have that option. He/she is usually limited by resources/finances, and has to find the best bull at a price they can afford. If the bull can improve their herd then it is a step up, and they can build from there as their situation improves.

If a bull cannot sire calves that are desireable by the market wouldn;t it mean that saving the money by using a poor bull is costing money rather then saving it?
 
dun":1uyurpsq said:
msscamp":1uyurpsq said:
I agree with you, but I would also ask that you consider this - a beginner just starting out does not necessarily have that option. He/she is usually limited by resources/finances, and has to find the best bull at a price they can afford. If the bull can improve their herd then it is a step up, and they can build from there as their situation improves.

If a bull cannot sire calves that are desireable by the market wouldn;t it mean that saving the money by using a poor bull is costing money rather then saving it?

I understand what you're saying, but it's not a matter of costing or saving money. It's usually a matter of having X amount of money available to buy a bull and finding the best bull that will do the most for herd for that amount.
 
dun":33kcrcly said:
msscamp":33kcrcly said:
I agree with you, but I would also ask that you consider this - a beginner just starting out does not necessarily have that option. He/she is usually limited by resources/finances, and has to find the best bull at a price they can afford. If the bull can improve their herd then it is a step up, and they can build from there as their situation improves.

If a bull cannot sire calves that are desireable by the market wouldn;t it mean that saving the money by using a poor bull is costing money rather then saving it?


Exactly
there is usually alot of difference in the quality of a bull and not much $ difference usually a $1700 - $2000 bull will be twice as good if not more than a $1000-1200 bull and that difference in price should be made up in the first calf crop
 
I agree, I believe the poorer you cow herd is the more you need a good bull. If the different AI sires (who are all some of the top genetics in SA) can make such a big difference in my herd how much more difference can the right bull make for the commercial farmer with a hodge podge of genetics that originated from half a dozen different salebarns?
 
dun":dupu3fje said:
msscamp":dupu3fje said:
I agree with you, but I would also ask that you consider this - a beginner just starting out does not necessarily have that option. He/she is usually limited by resources/finances, and has to find the best bull at a price they can afford. If the bull can improve their herd then it is a step up, and they can build from there as their situation improves.

If a bull cannot sire calves that are desireable by the market wouldn;t it mean that saving the money by using a poor bull is costing money rather then saving it?


Not if it is the only option available at the time. A live calf is still better than no calf at all! No?
 
Two comments: there seems like there is not necessarily a direct correlation between the cost of a bull and his quality. Simply paying more for a bull, as implied from several posts above, does not mean you are getting a better bull than a lower cost bull. Paying more does also not necessarily mean you are getting the bull that you need for your herd goals and markets.

As in most things in life, we will probably never own our perfect, ideal bull. Then the question comes up how good is he and is he going to improve my herd in areas where it needs improvement?

For a beginner the problem is that we are usually (speaking of myself) NOT qualified to make a judgement on bulls. We don't have enough experience to value the visual traits that can be seen. We don't understand EPD's enough to make good use of them to value the traits which can NOT be seen.

We have trouble determining if a bull is likely to improve our herd and also if the bull is worth the price being asked.

The only solution to these beginner problems I see is to find a breeder who you can trust, tell him what you would like to have, what price range you are limited to and let him (or her) guide the bull choice.

I knowledgeable person will help make the inevitable decision about "is this bull the best I can get for my herd's needs for the money I can spend". jmho.

Jim
 
SRBeef":h1ydix4q said:
Two comments: there seems like there is not necessarily a direct correlation between the cost of a bull and his quality. Simply paying more for a bull, as implied from several posts above, does not mean you are getting a better bull than a lower cost bull. Paying more does also not necessarily mean you are getting the bull that you need for your herd goals and markets.

As in most things in life, we will probably never own our perfect, ideal bull. Then the question comes up how good is he and is he going to improve my herd in areas where it needs improvement?

For a beginner the problem is that we are usually (speaking of myself) NOT qualified to make a judgement on bulls. We don't have enough experience to value the visual traits that can be seen. We don't understand EPD's enough to make good use of them to value the traits which can NOT be seen.

We have trouble determining if a bull is likely to improve our herd and also if the bull is worht the price being asked.

The only solution to these beginner problems I see is to find a breeder who you can trust, tell him what you would like to have, what price range you are limited to and let him (or her) guide the bull choice.

I knowledgeable person will help make the inevitable decision about "is this bull the best I can get for my herd's needs for the money I can spend". jmho.

Jim
A very accurate HO. If you can;t find a breeder you trust find someone that is willing to mentor you that doesn;t have an axe to grind. The mentor doesn;t just apply to bull/cow selection but to a lot of other facits of the business.
 
SRB - Sure, many people pay too much for the quality of what they got & some find a great buy for less money. But, what others basically are saying, if you go to a reputable breeder that you trust and he has bulls priced from $1000 - $2000; you are probably money ahead to pay the $2000.
 

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