Reviving a vintage watering system / field drain

[baldrick]

Winter is knocking on the door and the way I was watering cows over past 2 winters is no longer working. It was usable from about November through beginning of May and when I discovered it, it was literally a water hole in the middle of the pasture. I suspected it was part of a field drain system, taking water from springs and snowmelt off the hill, down under the pasture and toward the river. It had to be unplugged couple times this spring by using an auger after cows stomped it shut, but after it stopped flowing completely (despite water present by the hill), I decided to dig it out and see exactly how it looks like (pictures below show it after it has been dug out, not when it was in use).

Well, imagine a couple clay drain tiles going a long distance under the pasture and a place that used to connect them into 1 outlet and dump it into the river. Right now it looks like a about a 2-3ft deep ditch, filled with slowly moving water (I imagine it moves quite fast when it's not as dry as now). I also dug out an ancient roll of barbed wire so it definitely wasn't just a field drain but also a sophisticated setup to water livestock.

Has anyone seen anything like this, especially when it was in working condition?

Despite cold Wisconsin winters, I have never seen it freeze when it was covered. There was always some water moving through, although before it looked more like a spring than anything else. Probably not very sanitary too. So maybe I could just bury it back. But it will get cold pretty soon and if it doesn't flow again, doing stock tank watering half a mile from the house will easily add at least 30 minutes of chore time a day (I would fill up an IBC tote, carry it to the stock tank and dump it in).

I have some ideas on how to make it work, but also lots of doubts so I would like to hear your suggestions first (BTW, one photo shows a 4" clay tile that would fit a 4" fernco clay tile to 4" PVC adapter pretty tight, second photo shows a trickle that is another 4" clay tile and 3rd photo with board across, shows an outlet that is bigger than 4" clay tile fernco - not sure what would fit it.

 

[Brute 23]

I am not familiar with this type of stuff but have seen it discussed on here. My understanding is you would want to fence off the source so cattle do not damage it. Then you would maybe make a hold area and water from it to a trough or in the ground or some thing.

That is very interesting. Hope some one else chimes in on how to make it usable. Some one went through a lot of trouble to install it so I'm sure it a good purpose. Water looks pretty darn clean also.

 

[kenny thomas]

I am not familiar with this type of stuff but have seen it discussed on here. My understanding is you would want to fence off the source so cattle do not damage it. Then you would maybe make a hold area and water from it to a trough or in the ground or some thing.

That is very interesting. Hope some one else chimes in on how to make it usable. Some one went through a lot of trouble to install it so I'm sure it a good purpose. Water looks pretty darn clean also.

Brute 23, those were installed to remove water so fields could grow crops, not for any cattle use. The old clay pipes sometimes collapse and have to be replaced. Years ago NRCS cost shared to drain areas for crops and now im pretty sure its illegal to drain them. They can maintain the old system but not create new ones.
Notice how deep the pipe is installed so they can farm over top of it. A system of pipes can cover several hundred acres and dump water into a ditch at its end.

 

[Brute 23]

Brute 23, those were installed to remove water so fields could grow crops, not for any cattle use. The old clay pipes sometimes collapse and have to be replaced. Years ago NRCS cost shared to drain areas for crops and now im pretty sure its illegal to drain them. They can maintain the old system but not create new ones.
Notice how deep the pipe is installed so they can farm over top of it. A system of pipes can cover several hundred acres and dump water into a ditch at its end.

Dang. Seems like a pretty good system. It would be interesting to find the other end.

 

[Stickney94]

Field drain tiles are nearly everywhere in southern MN. That's what this looks like to me -- not anything built specifically to water cattle. I have 4 of these that drain into my pasture from the cropland uphill. My guess is that the old clay tile uphill from what you have unearthed probably collapsed which is why there is a slow trickle.

I have no idea what the laws are for drain tiling in WI. But you should check with the NRCS in your county. Often there are official drainage districts involved and the legal aspects of that tend to be complicated.

 

[kenny thomas]

Dang. Seems like a pretty good system. It would be interesting to find the other end.

There actually isnt but 1 end and thats where it drains to. As the pipes cross a field they finger out and could be a dozen pipes and as water drains down each connection normally goes into a bigger pipe. All those pipes are like drain pipes for a septic system only they take water in not distribute it out. I have seen dogs run a coon into them and the coon gets far enough in that the pipe gets too small for the dog. On a few occasions they have to dig it up to get the dog out.

 

[Brute 23]

There actually isnt but 1 end and thats where it drains to. As the pipes cross a field they finger out and could be a dozen pipes and as water drains down each connection normally goes into a bigger pipe. All those pipes are like drain pipes for a septic system only they take water in not distribute it out. I have seen dogs run a coon into them and the coon gets far enough in that the pipe gets too small for the dog. On a few occasions they have to dig it up to get the dog out.

That makes sense.

Typical coon dog stuff.

 

[simme]

Old days was about productivity and crop production. Plant fencerow to fencerow and feed the world. That required field drainage in many places. Then someone discovered the concept of "wetlands". Certain features and certain plants and small animals and creepy crawlers present define it as "wetlands" - even if it is dry most of the year. In modern times, huge fines and maybe even death (economic, mental and maybe physical) if you disturb the ground in "wetlands". Government overreach in many cases.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Talk to a tiling contractor in your area, they know the real story.

 

[4hfarms]

There are a few springs around. There is a large round concrete cistern burried half way over most of them. Result is water that will never freeze.

Would this work in the same manner? Pressure from the flow would keep it full, clear and moving. Just a thought...

 

[baldrick]

These field draining systems are everywhere here and new are being installed every year using corrugated plastic drain pipe, but finding a roll of barbed wire exactly where these pipes interconnect made me think if it wasn't part of a drinking system. And if it was just a fluke, can it still be made into one.

Ground thawed a bit over past few days and I finally figured out how to put some pieces together (regular clay tile fernco is too small) to test the head pressure. Will report back with the findings.

 

[baldrick]

If I excavate it more and create a ramp - even if the final approach is pitched away from that flowing ditch - this will be a muddy mess full of manure in no time. It would require gravel and/or concrete and possibly another route/ditch for manure to be washed away from the drinking area.

Right now I am trying to make it work on a budget and hopefully have enough pressure to allow for some kind of a pipe to bring water up ~18" above the ground level, possibly into a trough or a split culvert, allowing water to flow and end up draining back into the outlet.

 

[baldrick]

Talk to a tiling contractor in your area, they know the real story.

This land was owned by some crazy (positively) innovative farmer that immigrated from Netherlands well ove 100 years ago and his sons over next 70+ years, until about 40-50 years ago. One of the gems we found was windmill driven well pumping water into a massive buried cystern up on the hill and from that cystern water ran by gravity down to the house and to the barn.

Pasture has ditch running along entire hill, clearly made to collect water, with remnants of barbed wire. This could have been possibly used as seasonal watering for livestock too. We located the inlet of one of the drain tiles along this ditch and the 2nd one is somewhere there probably too. It might be time to clean up some trees and refresh that ditch line.

 

[CowboyRam]

We tied into our field drain line several years ago. Ours was plastic, not clay tile. I would think you could attach a fernco to it. I created a sump to pump water out of with a solar pump. The water flows into the tank, and then drains back down into the line that daylights out farther downline. I made it so that when the pump was no pumping the water could continue to flow downline.

 

[baldrick]

That's awesome. How cold does it get where you are?

Does the pump draw the water directly from the horizontal pipe via a tee or an opening in the pipe? How full is it?
How does it drain back from the tank? Overflow?

I fought with that fernco for a good hour. Just couldn't get it on. Too small by about 1/4". This was critical to make this work yet this winter, but maybe it's already too late since the excavated mud pile is all frozen and so are gravel and sand piles.

Drain tile adapter works (see below, the narrow part goes inside the clay tile), but it won't be sealed water tight without using tape, wet mud or bentonite (and it will be hard because bottom 2 inches of the pipe is in standing/moving water). I would either use 1 adapter and carry on with the corrugated drain pipe or use 2 back to back adapters and switch to PVC or thin wall sewer pipe. Also debating between turning a 90 and going straight up vs about 45. It's only about 30in to the bottom of the ditch, so not much geothermal effect. Also not sure what the implications would be, between 90 and 45 especially with possibly contaminants, mud, twigs, etc. and possible required maintenance (most worried about cleaning out the blockages)


Is your system accessible for maintenance? Love the idea with the tire and that is part of a fence line. What kind of solar panels, pump and battery?

 

[kenny thomas]

Is it possible to use a Ram pump. No power needed with a Ram.

 

[CowboyRam]

Here is a really crude drawing of what I did. The red line is the drain line, the black line I added. I made sump, and if I remember I put it 2' below the drain line. because of the T's I ended up coming up about one foot. I wish I had gone the other way. I do have some water back up my line, but while the pump is running I should never pump out the water. I did later find a 4 way T on the internet. My pipe I added is 6" schedule 40 PVC. I didn't really worry about leaks because the drain tile is perforated pipe anyway. I then in a pitless well adapter that is below the surface of the water in the tank. This winter I did have to add in a check valve because my new pump didn't let the water drain out, and it would freeze in the end of the pipe. I am only pumping about 5'. It seems to work really well. My system has 4 100 amp hour batteries so the water will run most of the night, but is froze by morning, but once the sun comes out it does not take long for the running water to thaw out the ice.

I would recommend that you size up to 6" for your vertical lines, at least the one you want to put a pump in. I had my pump go out this year and tried to buy several of those cheap well pumps. One lasted 30 days another a week, and several didn't work at all. I finally had to buy a $700 solar pump form https://thesolarstore.com/aquatec-swp-6000-submersible-solar-water-pump-p-1873.html I have not had any problem since. One thing I do like about the new pump is that it is made here in the USA. You get what you pay for. If you buy cheap you get cheap.

 

[CowboyRam]

to seal that pipe you could use Flex Seal paste.

 

[baldrick]

Sorry for lack of updates but the weather won this round against me. I am hauling water in IBC totes about every other day (and break the ice in the stock tank on other days). I will be revisiting this project in the spring.

 

[RDFF]

You aren't including any information about the slope of the ground where this tile is located, and that's important. Obviously the drain tile always runs downhill, till it finally empties into a drainage ditch or natural waterway, so in any case, I KNOW that you've got "some slope" at least. If you locate the top of a tank (...could be a tire tank) just downhill far enough from the drain tile... so that the top of the tank is "level/slightly lower" than where you divert the tile to go into the tank, it'll fill... then install an overflow pipe in the center of the tire tank, for the excess water to escape and hook that back up to the field tile further below the tire tank... if water runs through that tile all winter, your tank be kept open by "continuous flow geo-thermal heat". Of course, if the drain tile isn't running any water, your tank will go empty too. One other word of caution, field tile from under row crops carries alot of things with it that you may not want your cattle to be drinking... fertilizer, chemicals, etc.

Here'a a picture of the tire tanks that I install. I use my pressure line from my well to fill them, and use them as continuous flow geothermally heated tanks all winter. I just posted about this on another thread... CattleToday: Feeding Hay You can read the details of how I set them up there. The white 4" PVC in the center with the vent stack is the overflow, drains down into my field tile. But you could accomplish the same with the flow from field tile, you just need the tank to be downhill from the point where you pull water out of the field tile at. I just fill in gravel deeply around the tire tanks to keep the critters from being in the mud. Need to "refill" around them every so often as the cattle get it worked down. This is a 36" wide tire, with about 20" exposed above the gravel line.