Retaining Ownership

[HDRider]

Can someone here that retains ownership through the feedlot talk about their experinces?

Specifically, I'd like to hear if you do this to see the results of your genetics? Grading and such…

Do you consistently enjoy some margin advantage?
.................How often? 80% of the time? Less?
.................How much? 10% more gross profit? Less?

Do you ever take possession after the beef leaves the feedlot?
..... Or do you always sell and let it move forward in the value chain?

I attached this document for anyone that wants to read about the subject.
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/beef/as1162.pdf


Thanks

 

[HDRider]

No one does this?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'm not sure that with prices as high as they are for calves it would be the wisest move to retain them all the way through to slaughter.

 

[HDRider]

I'm not sure that with prices as high as they are for calves it would be the wisest move to retain them all the way through to slaughter.

Aren't prices up on that end too?

 

[Mountain_Fork]

I haven't done it or know anyone so I didn't answer
But what comes to mind would be depending on your genetics as to how well they grow/covert, cost of gain and how well they'll grade.
The outside looking in #1 would be cost of gain
The feed cost and yardage you can pencil. The gain is the unknown

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I'm not sure that with prices as high as they are for calves it would be the wisest move to retain them all the way through to slaughter.

Aren't prices up on that end too?

I have read that the feedlot margins are really under pressure.

The former Inbredredneck who then became ibetyoumissedme could do a really good job explaining it all as long as he wasntshittingus.

 

[HDRider]

I haven't done it or know anyone so I didn't answer
But what comes to mind would be depending on your genetics as to how well they grow/covert, cost of gain and how well they'll grade.
The outside looking in #1 would be cost of gain
The feed cost and yardage you can pencil. The gain is the unknown

If one progresses to a point they think they have what it takes, maybe it would pay a premium to try this route. Worse case you find out how your stuff ranks. I know buyers like lots of 100 or so, so that would be a barrier for me... I have also read that some guys pool, but finding someone who is like you might be hard, trying to be consistent.

TT - I have heard margins are thin on that end, but prices still must be up on the retail/wholesale side of things. I tried to find some trend charts but could not. The best I did was find about 12 months of market reports. The few I read said prices were up..

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

We have an outfit near us called The Beef Connection and they pool cattle from local ranchers, background them and ship them west to the feed yards where ownership is retained all the way to the final destination. I just haven't been brave enough to join in.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Here's their web site.

http://thebeefconnection.com

 

[Tim/South]

A friend of mine passed away last year. We had become good friends over the last 10 years. He usually kept 3 pens on feed, had 3 pens on feed when he died. The last few years he shipped them to north Texas, was in Kansas before then.
He always retained ownership. The feed lot would call with the bids when a pen was finished. He would accept or decline.
He paid as he went. Some feed lots were paid every two weeks, some once a month.
The old gent was also a cattle trader. He would buy them sick or poor but not both. He kept around 200 trader cattle. He had 350 momma cows.
Most of the time he sold his home grown calves at auction. Most of his cattle on feed were groups he put together from the trader cattle.
He made good money. He did not make as much as people thought he did. We kept that a secret.
When it was all said and done I think he cleared around $8,000 per pen. Some depended on the size of the pen.
He said heifers made more money on feed than steers. Until recently you could buy heifers a good bit less than bull calves. He loved to group and ship heifers.

 

[Mountain_Fork]

I haven't done it or know anyone so I didn't answer
But what comes to mind would be depending on your genetics as to how well they grow/covert, cost of gain and how well they'll grade.
The outside looking in #1 would be cost of gain
The feed cost and yardage you can pencil. The gain is the unknown

If one progresses to a point they think they have what it takes, maybe it would pay a premium to try this route. Worse case you find out how your stuff ranks. I know buyers like lots of 100 or so, so that would be a barrier for me... I have also read that some guys pool, but finding someone who is like you might be hard, trying to be consistent.

TT - I have heard margins are thin on that end, but prices still must be up on the retail/wholesale side of things. I tried to find some trend charts but could not. The best I did was find about 12 months of market reports. The few I read said prices were up..

You can find a custom feeder that will feed your cattle in lots of less than a 100
A pot of feeders is going to be around 50 head +/-, but even less than that they can group your with others in a pen
But that another problem mixing cattle
You own them so they are not any buyers worry about
Feeding cattle is the big boys game. The problem is finding a feeder they'll treat you right

 

[dun]

We used to do it. Some years we would have been better of selling them to the feeders some years better off retaining ownership or at least partial ownership. The main drawback to retaining ownership is if the calf dies you still have to pay the feeder for getting it to that point. The other drawback is having to wait so long to get paid vs getting paid when they are sold to the feeder.

 

[plumber_greg]

I had about the same experience as dun. Did it for a few years. If you are one that says they would never do it with their calves, would lose too much money, why do you expect someone else to buy them and lose money?
I always got out of them what a feeder calf would have brought. If I could have got 700 for a feeder calf, I would in a good year get maybe 750 average after expenses.
The reason I quit was for a pen of around 100 mixed steers and heifers, the risk of getting 650 for the calves was too much for such a small number. Make $20 extra per calf on one pen, you ain't got much, make it on 100 pens and you got something.
Guess I'm saying it's not for the small guy to do it alone.
Genetic wise, it takes too long to correct the cattle that needs to be corrected. One bad bull, you've lost 3 years on getting everything to receive a premium on the carcasses. The grid you sell on is what it is all about. Have a yg4, lose $300 on that carcass, and it has to be made up on the others. 3 or 4 light carcasses, same way. Then you get the one that gives you a $150 premium, and it goes the other way. Even with the average being higher, to me it wasn't just enough to justify the risk that I wouldn't get as much for my calves as I could get as feeders.
When they go to a sale barn, buyers will sort and pay different money for different cattle. When we go to the feedlot, meaning the small producer, we have to take what we raise to fill a pen, no sorting. One year I had a calf in the sick pen, cost me more to feed him than I got for him. After you spend $30 in medicine, what's another thirty 2 weeks later, and it goes on and on and on.
I'm really glad I did it, learned a lot about how it all works. Just not a long term thing for me. If you have enough for a pen, can stand the econimcs of skipping a selling time and afford to sell later, I would encourage you to do. gs

 

[dun]

I had about the same experience as dun. Did it for a few years. If you are one that says they would never do it with their calves, would lose too much money, why do you expect someone else to buy them and lose money?
I always got out of them what a feeder calf would have brought. If I could have got 700 for a feeder calf, I would in a good year get maybe 750 average after expenses.
The reason I quit was for a pen of around 100 mixed steers and heifers, the risk of getting 650 for the calves was too much for such a small number. Make $20 extra per calf on one pen, you ain't got much, make it on 100 pens and you got something.
Guess I'm saying it's not for the small guy to do it alone.
Genetic wise, it takes too long to correct the cattle that needs to be corrected. One bad bull, you've lost 3 years on getting everything to receive a premium on the carcasses. The grid you sell on is what it is all about. Have a yg4, lose $300 on that carcass, and it has to be made up on the others. 3 or 4 light carcasses, same way. Then you get the one that gives you a $150 premium, and it goes the other way. Even with the average being higher, to me it wasn't just enough to justify the risk that I wouldn't get as much for my calves as I could get as feeders.
When they go to a sale barn, buyers will sort and pay different money for different cattle. When we go to the feedlot, meaning the small producer, we have to take what we raise to fill a pen, no sorting. One year I had a calf in the sick pen, cost me more to feed him than I got for him. After you spend $30 in medicine, what's another thirty 2 weeks later, and it goes on and on and on.
I'm really glad I did it, learned a lot about how it all works. Just not a long term thing for me. If you have enough for a pen, can stand the econimcs of skipping a selling time and afford to sell later, I would encourage you to do. gs

We did it through a marketing group where a dozen or so producers would all comingle their calves and background them then deliver by the pot load. Some feeders would buy 100% some feeders only 50% and some feeders barely any percenatge. It did provide us with good data for both gain and carcass. We did it for 5-6 years but finally decided the possible risk wasn;t worth the possible rewards. Usually we would collectively market 6-7 pots of spring calves and 4-5 pots of fall calves.

 

[HDRider]

I had about the same experience as dun. Did it for a few years. If you are one that says they would never do it with their calves, would lose too much money, why do you expect someone else to buy them and lose money?
I always got out of them what a feeder calf would have brought. If I could have got 700 for a feeder calf, I would in a good year get maybe 750 average after expenses.
The reason I quit was for a pen of around 100 mixed steers and heifers, the risk of getting 650 for the calves was too much for such a small number. Make $20 extra per calf on one pen, you ain't got much, make it on 100 pens and you got something.
Guess I'm saying it's not for the small guy to do it alone.
Genetic wise, it takes too long to correct the cattle that needs to be corrected. One bad bull, you've lost 3 years on getting everything to receive a premium on the carcasses. The grid you sell on is what it is all about. Have a yg4, lose $300 on that carcass, and it has to be made up on the others. 3 or 4 light carcasses, same way. Then you get the one that gives you a $150 premium, and it goes the other way. Even with the average being higher, to me it wasn't just enough to justify the risk that I wouldn't get as much for my calves as I could get as feeders.
When they go to a sale barn, buyers will sort and pay different money for different cattle. When we go to the feedlot, meaning the small producer, we have to take what we raise to fill a pen, no sorting. One year I had a calf in the sick pen, cost me more to feed him than I got for him. After you spend $30 in medicine, what's another thirty 2 weeks later, and it goes on and on and on.
I'm really glad I did it, learned a lot about how it all works. Just not a long term thing for me. If you have enough for a pen, can stand the econimcs of skipping a selling time and afford to sell later, I would encourage you to do. gs

We did it through a marketing group where a dozen or so producers would all comingle their calves and background them then deliver by the pot load. Some feeders would buy 100% some feeders only 50% and some feeders barely any percenatge. It did provide us with good data for both gain and carcass. We did it for 5-6 years but finally decided the possible risk wasn;t worth the possible rewards. Usually we would collectively market 6-7 pots of spring calves and 4-5 pots of fall calves.

Thanks guys. I see what your saying. Thanks for the schoolin'...

 

[Newberry Creek]

Got a buddy that does this and his claim is that this is the only way to really tell if what you are doing to improve your heard is working!

 

[dun]

Got a buddy that does this and his claim is that this is the only way to really tell if what you are doing to improve your heard is working!

That's true if you're looking for carcass traits and feed/finsih traits. The data we got was really handy for that, and those premiums for "Sterling Silver" carcasses was sure nice.

 

[Limomike]

Thats why I love this site... learn something new. I had always wondered how it worked retaining ownership, but never knew anyone who had actually done it. Glad to know the info on it now..thanks !

 

[ibetyamissedme]

You can find a custom feeder that will feed your cattle in lots of less than a 100
A pot of feeders is going to be around 50 head +/-, but even less than that they can group your with others in a pen
But that another problem mixing cattle
You own them so they are not any buyers worry about
Feeding cattle is the big boys game. The problem is finding a feeder they'll treat you right

A 50 head potload would be yearlings, your investment would be higher per head but your risk would be shorter. On the other hand, when you get south of a certain line there are those who believe that a newborn can be classified as a yearling. So be careful with yearlings.

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Got a buddy that does this and his claim is that this is the only way to really tell if what you are doing to improve your heard is working!

I can not even begin to tell you how many times cattle have been bought from cow calf producers who thought they had gods gift as far as quality went in their calves. Yet the calves were **** producers. That is why I am always skeptical of posters here at CT when they claim they produce so much better beef than can be bought in the stores. First reason being they know nothing about what quality is at the store and second reason being they have no idea what they are producing. I always fall out of my chair laughing when I read them type this "we took our home raised beef to the local butcher shop, the butcher told us it was the best beef he ever cut, he told us it graded prime" really? your butcher first off is not a USDA grader secondly he just wants to be pleasant and get your business again, this ain't rocket science. Most times when someone retains ownership and sells grade and yield for the first time, the first thing they say when they get grade and yields back is "the bastards must have got our cattle mixed up with someone elses, out cattle were prime, the local butcher said so" we ain't selling there again, crooked sob.