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Retained Placenta

dun

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Emphasis mine
Copied from:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ent#Stages


Retained Placenta

A cow normally loses her afterbirth (placenta) within two to six hours after giving birth, A placenta which has not been passed by 12 hours is considered a retained placenta. If the cow shows no signs of illness (e.g., fever, off feed) there is little cause for alarm.

Most cows will expel a retained placenta within six to eight days after calving. Manual removal should be avoided to prevent excessive haemorrhage in the uterus or introducing additional infection into the uterus. The placenta is best left alone or simply cut off where it hangs out of the vulva. It is not recommended that uterine boluses be put into the uterus routinely as this may result in a delay of the decomposition of the placenta and, therefore, prolong its passage.

If an animal with a retained placenta loses her appetite or seems dull and lethargic, it may have an elevated temperature, Injections of an antibiotic should be given daily until her appetite is normal. Consult your veterinarian if she does not appear to be responding to treatment.
 

Cowdirt

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dun":20xbbtcx said:
Emphasis mine
Copied from:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ent#Stages


Retained Placenta

A cow normally loses her afterbirth (placenta) within two to six hours after giving birth, A placenta which has not been passed by 12 hours is considered a retained placenta. If the cow shows no signs of illness (e.g., fever, off feed) there is little cause for alarm.

Most cows will expel a retained placenta within six to eight days after calving. Manual removal should be avoided to prevent excessive haemorrhage in the uterus or introducing additional infection into the uterus. The placenta is best left alone or simply cut off where it hangs out of the vulva. It is not recommended that uterine boluses be put into the uterus routinely as this may result in a delay of the decomposition of the placenta and, therefore, prolong its passage.

If an animal with a retained placenta loses her appetite or seems dull and lethargic, it may have an elevated temperature, Injections of an antibiotic should be given daily until her appetite is normal. Consult your veterinarian if she does not appear to be responding to treatment.


Dun, this agrees with what my vet told me yrs. ago. I have seen a lot of conversation and concern on this board about RP in times past. I think you coined the phrase "benign neglect". Well I lean in that direction much of the time in my operation. I will have to say that I got concerned about many minor things in my early yrs. I think that's just normal until we get some experiences under our belt.
 

KNERSIE

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It is not recommended that uterine boluses be put into the uterus routinely as this may result in a delay of the decomposition of the placenta and, therefore, prolong its passage.

This is a very broad statement not taking climate into account. Tests done in hot climates here has shown that cows with RP bred back quicker if uterine boluses was used CORRECTLY.

From my experience that little bit of manual manipulation when inserting the bolus often just helps the detaching process just that little bit and very seldom a second bolus is required 48 hours later. (holding the RP in one had while inserting the bolus with the other to prevent pushing it back in)

I think retained placentas is an area where more specialist research can still be done to benefit the industry as a whole. I don't see on any Lutalyse or Estrumate label that it might help for a RP, yet those of us who has used it knows that in certain cases it works. The uterine boluses definately help keep the uterus in better shape and avoid infection helping it to return to normal shape and size much sooner. The detaching process is caused by enzymes so I doubt the little antibiotics in the bolus will have a big effect on the enzymatic process although I am not certain how sensitive the specific enzymes are to oxytetracycline.

There is also a big difference in quality between the more pricey vs the cheaper boluses, just put a Terramycin bolus in a jug with a little water and do the same with a cheap immitation and you'll see what I mean. (do this in the sink otherwise the SO might not think your scientific experiment is as neat as you do)
 

mnmtranching

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Been a log time since I tried to remove a retained placenta. The way I look at it you can't get it all anyway. Leave it hang out, let gravity and weight work at bringing it out. I don't like the idea of cutting it off, you lose the advantage of the weight pulling at the rest. And if you pull it's likely to break.
 

KNERSIE

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mnmtranching":1emf12eh said:
Been a log time since I tried to remove a retained placenta. The way I look at it you can't get it all anyway. Leave it hang out, let gravity and weight work at bringing it out. I don't like the idea of cutting it off, you lose the advantage of the weight pulling at the rest. And if you pull it's likely to break.

I agree 100% with your approach, except that I put uterine boluses in if the cow hasn't ceaned out after 48 hours and repeat every 48 hours unless I see progress.

A shot of Multimin a month before calving will eliminate most of the RP problems
 

hillsdown

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KNERSIE":1vj28rvv said:
It is not recommended that uterine boluses be put into the uterus routinely as this may result in a delay of the decomposition of the placenta and, therefore, prolong its passage.

This is a very broad statement not taking climate into account. Tests done in hot climates here has shown that cows with RP bred back quicker if uterine boluses was used CORRECTLY.

From my experience that little bit of manual manipulation when inserting the bolus often just helps the detaching process just that little bit and very seldom a second bolus is required 48 hours later. (holding the RP in one had while inserting the bolus with the other to prevent pushing it back in)

I think retained placentas is an area where more specialist research can still be done to benefit the industry as a whole. I don't see on any Lutalyse or Estrumate label that it might help for a RP, yet those of us who has used it knows that in certain cases it works. The uterine boluses definately help keep the uterus in better shape and avoid infection helping it to return to normal shape and size much sooner. The detaching process is caused by enzymes so I doubt the little antibiotics in the bolus will have a big effect on the enzymatic process although I am not certain how sensitive the specific enzymes are to oxytetracycline.

There is also a big difference in quality between the more pricey vs the cheaper boluses, just put a Terramycin bolus in a jug with a little water and do the same with a cheap immitation and you'll see what I mean. (do this in the sink otherwise the SO might not think your scientific experiment is as neat as you do)

I agree Knersie there are to many variables to make a broad statement each situation is different. If you walk by a cow that hasn't cleaned in a few days and just about throw up you had better do something. If you practice benign neglect in this situation not only will the cow dry up but she probably will die ..

I only intervene in these scenarios, I infuse with a tetracycline powder solution (liquid) and you must ensure that it gets under the attached/retained placenta and through the cervix. Our vet still advises this procedure in these cases. The cow is then given a shot of estrumate and a good strong dose of antibiotics and usually an anti inflammatory. They almost always completely clean in a day or two and are back to full milk and eating normally.

Thankfully this is a rare occasion and usually only with twins. This year every cow/heifer that has had a single calf has expelled the placenta within the first hour after calving..

I also find a significant difference in dairy cattle versus beef retaining placenta.

I do agree though never ever manually try to remove a retained placenta you can ruin a cow forever or even kill it by doing that..

Good link Dun, thanks for posting it.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Dun, I posted that same article or one VERY similar & got the same responses. I totally agree with the article - at least that's what our vets & research says.
I also agree no single answer covers everything. "Maybe" hot climates can cause more infections??? Still seems like, yes, they will stink more, but if the cow does not exhibit illness or lots of puss discharge, I would still think they should "clean" themselves naturally.
But, if I was in that climate and RESEARCH in your area told you to insert uterine boluses, who am I to argue with that. I probably would be doing it also.
With our mineral & Selenium program, RP are virtually a thing of the past (let's hope it stays that way). Even with twins, we have lucked out and I can't remember the last time we had one. But, we always give a shot of Oxytocin if we assist calving & give Lutalyse if a set of twins right away. Don't know if the Lut helps at that point - but know (believe) it will at 10-14 days.
 

dun

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":21a24p7a said:
Dun, I posted that same article or one VERY similar & got the same responses. I totally agree with the article - at least that's what our vets & research says.
I also agree no single answer covers everything. "Maybe" hot climates can cause more infections??? Still seems like, yes, they will stink more, but if the cow does not exhibit illness or lots of puss discharge, I would still think they should "clean" themselves naturally.
But, if I was in that climate and RESEARCH in your area told you to insert uterine boluses, who am I to argue with that. I probably would be doing it also.
With our mineral & Selenium program, RP are virtually a thing of the past (let's hope it stays that way). Even with twins, we have lucked out and I can't remember the last time we had one. But, we always give a shot of Oxytocin if we assist calving & give Lutalyse if a set of twins right away. Don't know if the Lut helps at that point - but know (believe) it will at 10-14 days.

I figured it would stir up some controversy. We haven;t had a RP in 30 years or more, even the cow that aborted during the ice storm a couple of years ago cleaned. I see it fairly frequently in dairy herds, but even they don;t do anything unless the cow goes off a bit. I'll tell you that a 12 day old RP that gets dropped in the parlor during milking will definitely clear the barn.
 

KNERSIE

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Don't know if the Lut helps at that point - but know (believe) it will at 10-14 days.

I've never had one hang that long so I'll keep inserting the uterine boluses as they obviously didn't hamper the enzymes. I only ever have a RP with an assisted birth or twins and i don't have assisted births to speak of, can't say the same for twins though, had three sets last year.
 

George Monk

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I had this exact conversation with my vet this year.

We had a cow who was not clean after 4 days. My vet really strested that the conventional wisdom is to do nothing. She did clean a couple days later.

He did make a suggestion that surprised me. He knew that I had been doing some AI and suggested that I take an AI sheath and put some LA 200 directlly into the uterus. He felt that would help with infection.

I didn't do it because I hadn't ever heard of this before. Have any of you?
George
 

dun

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George Monk":1hk12mw3 said:
I had this exact conversation with my vet this year.

We had a cow who was not clean after 4 days. My vet really strested that the conventional wisdom is to do nothing. She did clean a couple days later.

He did make a suggestion that surprised me. He knew that I had been doing some AI and suggested that I take an AI sheath and put some LA 200 directlly into the uterus. He felt that would help with infection.

I didn't do it because I hadn't ever heard of this before. Have any of you?
George

Years ago we used to do that as a routine deal except we didn;t use LA200, I think it was combiotic. It's a lot easier with a pipette that is used for ampules then the flimsy sheaths though.
 

milkmaid

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George -- I use 60cc's of oxytet 100 -- uterine tissue is rather sensitive and there's a photo in my post of autopsy pictures showing an abcessed uterus as the result of too much oxytet 200 being infused. The abcess repeatedly opened and drained into the abdominal cavity and we eventually had to put the cow down.

In my experience I've found cows breed back quicker and have less uterine scarring if the placenta is carefully removed manually than if it's left and she develops a severe infection... but then I've seen a lot of RPs in the dairy herd and quite a few cows on the brink of death because they were left alone. But to each his own; I think we go through this same conversation every time RPs are brought up. TB and I always say clean 'em out, Jeanne and dun always say leave 'em alone. :lol2:
 

TexasBred

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dun":2ppiiiws said:
George Monk":2ppiiiws said:
I had this exact conversation with my vet this year.

We had a cow who was not clean after 4 days. My vet really strested that the conventional wisdom is to do nothing. She did clean a couple days later.

He did make a suggestion that surprised me. He knew that I had been doing some AI and suggested that I take an AI sheath and put some LA 200 directlly into the uterus. He felt that would help with infection.

I didn't do it because I hadn't ever heard of this before. Have any of you?
George

Years ago we used to do that as a routine deal except we didn;t use LA200, I think it was combiotic. It's a lot easier with a pipette that is used for ampules then the flimsy sheaths though.

Use to infuse a lot of dairy cattle that didn't clean out well with Ft. Dodge Nolvasan Suspension or the Nolvasan Cap Tabs. Didn't want to put any antibiotics into them and it seemed to work well.
 

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":3k3u3779 said:
Dun, I posted that same article or one VERY similar & got the same responses. I totally agree with the article - at least that's what our vets & research says.
I also agree no single answer covers everything. "Maybe" hot climates can cause more infections??? Still seems like, yes, they will stink more, but if the cow does not exhibit illness or lots of puss discharge, I would still think they should "clean" themselves naturally.
But, if I was in that climate and RESEARCH in your area told you to insert uterine boluses, who am I to argue with that. I probably would be doing it also.
With our mineral & Selenium program, RP are virtually a thing of the past (let's hope it stays that way). Even with twins, we have lucked out and I can't remember the last time we had one. But, we always give a shot of Oxytocin if we assist calving & give Lutalyse if a set of twins right away. Don't know if the Lut helps at that point - but know (believe) it will at 10-14 days.

Jeanne,

Is there any point of giving a shot of oxytocin a day or two later, or does this need to be done directly after assisting with the calf? I had a cow two years again retain, it started to smell, but she cleaned 7 days later and bred back fine, but it was an unassisted birth.

I had to pull one last night. I don't have much experience, but I don't think it was the worst pull. The calfs hips hung up a little at the end, but as soon as I got the calf's nose part way out, her contractions seemed to strengthen. This heifer seemed to have plenty of energy but just didn't seem to want to move the calf farther than his hooves sticking out.

The only other calf I've seen pulled resulted in some kind of pinched nerve in the cow (my grandfather used a fence stretcher to pull it) and she had to be put down - this heifer looks fine.

Thanks.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Badaxe - Milkmaid can explain it better - but, it works on the smooth muscles and will make the cow push more. Soooo - you NEVER give it until you are absolutely sure the calf is in the right position & can pass thru the birth canal - or - give it immediately afterwards. I do not believe it is any help after that point.
Oxytocin is also used as a milk "let down".
 

TexasBred

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Oxytocin is worthless for helping discharge afterbirth unless given as quickly after birth as possible. Afterward it only assists with milk let down.

When we had the dairy I always manually checked each cow the day after calving. If all mucous was clear all was well. If there was still some discoloration I'd use the bolus'. Retained placentas were removed as quickly as possible. I've heard all the pro's and con's of this but still chose to remove them as quickly as possible. In our heat rotting begins quickly followed immediately with infection and a ruined lactation. Always tried to do it as "sterile" as possible, as gentle as possible and never cause "new bleeding".
 

milkmaid

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Oxytocin only works up to 48 hours post-calving... due to decreased estrogen levels it has no effect on the reproductive tract after that.
 

badaxemoo

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milkmaid":4nq1fak6 said:
Oxytocin only works up to 48 hours post-calving... due to decreased estrogen levels it has no effect on the reproductive tract after that.

Thanks for the response (Jeanne and Texasbred, too).

I came home from work and the heifer had cleaned. Calf was up and sucking away, although her bag just looks awfully small too me. I'll keep an eye on her.

Just for future reference - Is Oxytocin available at most farm stores or would I have to get it from the vet? What dosage do you use for a heifer or cow that had to have an assisted birth?

Thanks again.
 

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