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Retained Placenta

3waycross

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Had a very interesting experience today with one of the Registered Gelbvieh cows. She gave birth to a very healthy heifer monday evening and by this morning still had not cleaned. She had virtually the whole placent hanging out and would not release. Before anyone asks why we waited so long don't bother it's a long story and she is not my cow, she's my partners, and I don't call the shots on his cows. The other issue is she has been plumb nuts for 2 weeks leading up to this and wouldn't be caught or cornered. We finally ran in the whole herd so we could get her in the chute.

Anyway here's where it gets interesting, the partner asked the local cow guru and 3 different vets what they recomended for a course of treatment and got 4 different(radically) answers.

So here's my question: What would you all have done as a course of treatment at this point.
 

dun

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Tied it up on itself so it doesn;t drag the ground or snag anything and turned her back out.
 

3waycross

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Thanks Dun!

By the way folks THIS IS NOT A TEST!!!!!!! There is no wrong answer as is evidenced by the 3 CSU vet school grads who all gave completely different answers. I just wanna hear from people I respect, what they would have done.
 

SMALLTIME

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A vet told me one time to give her a shot of Lutalyse. and it worked that time and about 5 other times sense then.
 

Sage

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Give he a shot of Oxytocin and a shot of LA200. The LA is just to fight off any infection that might develop. I hope you will post what all the vets said to do.
 

regolith

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Tie it up, bring her back in 4 - 7 days later and restrain her for manual cleaning if she hasn't done so already. Go with heavy dose of penicillin (double, for five days) in the meantime if she gets sick.

That's what our vets advise. Used to be four days, now they say seven. They specifically advise *not* using antibiotics unless the cow is sick... my guess that's one of the radically different options?
One warning - once a vet came in for a routine cleaning on a cow with a retained placenta (not normal, it was green) and found a dead twin. The cow died following caesarean.
Two warning - see more than a couple of these at a time and get some blood tests done to check selenium.
 

hillsdown

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She was/is cleaning, so let her be...She calved Monday and today is Wednesday...Let her be...
 

KNERSIE

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It depends on the weather, if its hot I would insert a intra-uterine pessary if she hasn't cleaned after 2 days, the reason is to prevent infection and also from my experience and the two vets I use is that they tend to heal quicker and return to fertile cycles much sooner. (or to put it better, the uterus would sooner be ready to maintain a pregnancy to fullterm)

If she starts to act lethargic I hit them with quick releasing oxytetracycline followed by a long acting one the next day and repeat every 72 hours if neccesary. I would in such a case put a pessary in every 72 hours as well since you'll have her in the chute anyway, after about a week or so in hot weather you might want to postpone your breakfast till after you've done this.

I suspect warm weather isn't an issue at the moment for you so as long as the cow is acting OK and you can see some more white-ish looking placenta near the vulva every, it means she is still making slow progress and benign neglect would be a relatively safe route.
 

lifeofleisure

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I had this happen 3 weeks ago with a new angus-x Heifer who lost a big Bull calf.

I asked some of the local experts and was told to let it go 7-10 days and watch her for signs of fever etc.

Finally called in Vet from Vet school on a monday morning, after 12 days. She cleaned sometime btwn Sunday night and when Vet and students arrived.

He checked her anyway, used the time to teach some students, no fever, everything was returning back to normal. Gave her a shot of antibiotic as a precaution.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodicals/ ... centa.html
 

mobgrazer

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This is what my vet told me 4 years ago…
Tie it up and give Lutalyse. If has not cleaned in 5 days total call back and she will do a cleaning.
If her temperament changes call back.

But we all know every vet and every person will say something different.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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LEAVE HER ALONE. Tie it up if you want or cut it shorter. After 7-10 days definately give a shot of Lut.
NEVER - NEVER EVER let a vet "clean it out". Research has shown this is the wrong thing to do. It causes more damage than if you leave them alone, although many, many vets want to do this. And never, ever give any antibiotic UNLESS the animal is showning a fever or acting sick.
The cows natural BUGS will clean up all the little bits & pieces left in her. If you give antibiotics, you kill her good bugs that would have taken care of the rotting tissue. The Lutalyse will "clean her out naturally". If she keeps showing signs of heavy discharge, hit her again with Lut 2 weeks later.
I think vets still "clean them" because it makes their customers feel better.

So not that I spealed what "I" think is the right thing to do - what was all your advice?
 

Angus Cowman

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":1xpd6thv said:
LEAVE HER ALONE. Tie it up if you want or cut it shorter. After 7-10 days definately give a shot of Lut.
NEVER - NEVER EVER let a vet "clean it out". Research has shown this is the wrong thing to do. It causes more damage than if you leave them alone, although many, many vets want to do this. And never, ever give any antibiotic UNLESS the animal is showning a fever or acting sick.
The cows natural BUGS will clean up all the little bits & pieces left in her. If you give antibiotics, you kill her good bugs that would have taken care of the rotting tissue. The Lutalyse will "clean her out naturally". If she keeps showing signs of heavy discharge, hit her again with Lut 2 weeks later.
I think vets still "clean them" because it makes their customers feel better.

So not that I spealed what "I" think is the right thing to do - what was all your advice?
Sorry Jeanne but I will disagree with you on 2 points here
1 Never cut it short the weight will help it come out
2nd
The lut works some times but not always and I have cleaned many out after 7 days with no problem , if it is left for 2 weeks or longer you have probably just ruined that cow for breeding because of the infection, guess you have never seen one with a uterus full of pus
I have seen cows with retained placentas get infected and die from the infection,because of advice given to people like you just did
 

bigbull338

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right now i would leave her alone.so cows take 7 to 10 days to clean out.an if you notice her stinking then you know she hasnt cleaned.then you might want to flush her out an give her a cleanout shot.you shouldve given her a bucket of warm water after calving.that usually helps them clean out.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Sorry Jeanne but I will disagree with you on 2 points here
1 Never cut it short the weight will help it come out
2nd
The lut works some times but not always and I have cleaned many out after 7 days with no problem , if it is left for 2 weeks or longer you have probably just ruined that cow for breeding because of the infection, guess you have never seen one with a uterus full of pus
I have seen cows with retained placentas get infected and die from the infection,because of advice given to people like you just did
I will agree with not cutting it short, I never do, just thought that was easier than tieing it up (ugh), but I just let it drag.
Nope, never had one "not breed back" or worse yet "die". If you reread, I did say to treat them if they showed a fever or signs of being sick. And I stand by what I said, "leave her alone".
If you have a good nutritional program & good minerals, basicly the only cows you "should" (and of course we know cows read the book on who "should" or "should not") have trouble with would be cows that had a set of twins, dystocia, real early calving or real late calving.
Out of over 40 calvings last year, I did not have 1 - yahoo - lucky.
 

Angus Cowman

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":1steruod said:
Sorry Jeanne but I will disagree with you on 2 points here
1 Never cut it short the weight will help it come out
2nd
The lut works some times but not always and I have cleaned many out after 7 days with no problem , if it is left for 2 weeks or longer you have probably just ruined that cow for breeding because of the infection, guess you have never seen one with a uterus full of pus
I have seen cows with retained placentas get infected and die from the infection,because of advice given to people like you just did
I will agree with not cutting it short, I never do, just thought that was easier than tieing it up (ugh), but I just let it drag.
Nope, never had one "not breed back" or worse yet "die". If you reread, I did say to treat them if they showed a fever or signs of being sick. And I stand by what I said, "leave her alone".
If you have a good nutritional program & good minerals, basicly the only cows you "should" (and of course we know cows read the book on who "should" or "should not") have trouble with would be cows that had a set of twins, dystocia, real early calving or real late calving.
Out of over 40 calvings last year, I did not have 1 - yahoo - lucky.
If a person has a good mineral program it is one of the most important things in cattle health and alot of people over look that
about the only ones I ever have a problem are hfrs that I have had to pull
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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http://www.partners-in-reproduction.com ... acenta.asp
Therapy and prevention of retained foetal membranes in cattleThe goal of an ideal therapy of retained foetal membranes would be to hasten the separation of the placenta and its expulsion from the uterine cavity as well as eliminate the bacterial contamination of the uterus. So far however a truly successful therapy has not been identified.

Manual removal of the membranesManual removal had been a common practice in the past. This method should not be used because of possible injury to the endometrium and uterine cervix. Moreover there is little evidence that such a practice produces any beneficial effect (Drillich et al., 2006)
Hormonal therapy
Although occasional reports exist, in general immediate post partum administration of PGF2alpha, oxytocin or calcium as summarized by LeBlanc (2008) have generally low efficacy in preventing the retained placenta or hastening the separation and expulsion of retrained foetal membranes.

Anti-infective therapy
Generally saying the dominant approach to retained placenta in cattle in the field condition is to administer locally or systemically antibiotics. Several studies indicate that approx. 50-80% of cows with retained foetal membranes exhibit elevated body temperature (>39ºC) for at least 1 d within 10d pp. It is not clear whether all such animals indeed would need a systemic treatment with antibiotics.

Intrauterine antibiotics used in the treatment of retained placenta should have high activity against E.coli and be free of irritating properties.
On many farms all cows with a rectal temperature ≥ 39.5°C within the first 10 days post calving receive a systemic antibiotic treatment.
There are number of reports indicating advantage of either intrauterine or systemic treatment but also some that demonstrated comparable efficacy of either of the approaches.
LeBlanc (2008) stressed that at present it seems economically preferable to selectively treat metritis cases rather than automatically treat all cows with retained placenta with antibiotics.

Homeopathic products
Some products are thought to improve contractility of the uterine muscle and intensify the blood flow in the endometrium (products containing pulsatilla and other ergots). Unfortunately little is know of their real efficacy.

Prevention of retained placenta
Recent discoveries indicate that retention of foetal membranes is associated with decreased immunity.

Cause Prevention
Metabolic diseases impair uterine immunity (Zerbe et al., 2001) Proper nutrition in peripartum period to avoid metabolic diseases.

Vitamin and mineral deficiencies can impair general immunity Vitamin E and Selenium supplementation (LeBlanc et al., 2002)
Maintenance of Ca:p ratio of 1.5:1.0 and P supplementation

Infectious diseases Proper immunisation against infections
 

mobgrazer

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Let me say I have never had a cow go more then 4 days with a shot of Lutalyse.

I did ask her one time what she dose for it and she told me it was a pregnancy and an internal massage in one. After asking for more info she told me a pair of gloves and a long glove and it looks like a long pregnancy check.

If you look at what the “old school” docs would do for prolong bleeding or an undelivered placenta it would start off with a belly massage. But it would not work with a cow unless you went at it like pregnancy checks because of there build.

IMO it sounds safe if done by someone that knows what there doing and the cow is healthy and would remain calm for there internal massage. Yes I’m sure that something could happen with doing this but I would think the chances would be low.
 

TexasBred

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I've haven't had any retained placentas in recent years but when dairying I always went in and manually removed retained placentas if they didn't clean out by the day after the calf was born. If you wait any longer you already have a problem.

Jeanne I know your article did not recommend this but I think I do far less damage removing it than I would have by leaving it to cause infection and long term problems. I always washed the vulva with an iodine solution, used OB gloves and worked very slow and gently. In general if you cause no new bleeding you haven't hurt anything. Many times all the entire thing needs is just an easy tug and wil turn completely loose. One the afterbirth was removed I'd insert 6-8 Nolvasan Cap Tabs, give a shot of Lutylase along with vaccinations, vitamins and wormer.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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TexasBred":2u0vbkrs said:
I've haven't had any retained placentas in recent years but when dairying I always went in and manually removed retained placentas if they didn't clean out by the day after the calf was born. If you wait any longer you already have a problem.

Jeanne I know your article did not recommend this but I think I do far less damage removing it than I would have by leaving it to cause infection and long term problems. I always washed the vulva with an iodine solution, used OB gloves and worked very slow and gently. In general if you cause no new bleeding you haven't hurt anything. Many times all the entire thing needs is just an easy tug and wil turn completely loose. One the afterbirth was removed I'd insert 6-8 Nolvasan Cap Tabs, give a shot of Lutylase along with vaccinations, vitamins and wormer.
Yep, that's exactly what the old vets do. Doesn't make it right. Everyone is going to stick to what they "think" is the best thing for their cattle. I just know that all the research has PROVEN that the number of days to REBREED is LESS if you leave them alone.
 

regolith

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I've haven't had any retained placentas in recent years but when dairying I always went in and manually removed retained placentas if they didn't clean out by the day after the calf was born. If you wait any longer you already have a problem.

What I've been told is that if the placenta doesn't come away on its own and you pull too hard, the separation of the cotyledons causes a lot of bleeding. That's why the seven day wait, for the cotyledons to rot down naturally (and no antibiotics because they interfere with the rotting process).
I definitely give them a gentle tug during milking (first milking after calving), but leave them if they don't fall out then. I've manually cleaned two in the last three years (out of 140 -155 cows/year) so don't have much experience of that - Milk fever is another to add to the list of what can cause them.
Those two cows had problems. I think the problems caused the retained placenta and not the other way round.

Jeanne's advice sounds right on - 'cept I don't know what lutalyse is and will have to go google it.
 
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