Reseeding pasture ???

[James T]

I have sprayed Grazon on Bahia. Not only on one field but several. I've used it repetitively year after year trying to kill huisache. I've never seen it kill any Bahia. When I spray in the spring the residual didn't even hurt the clover germination in the fall.

I would completely agree! Like Dunn mentioned, if used within it's parameters, it's a very wise choice. Certainly more wise than indescriminately spraying Remedy which is like spraying $50 dollar bills up in the air, not to mention that Remedy's main claim to fame is to knock out woody type growth. Like any other product, there are very precise instructions on the label. Read them! Grazon P+D does have a residual, however, this is not all bad. The idea is to prevent unwanted vegetation from coming back. Now, if you have any mature Bahia or Bluestem already in the ground, the Grazon may retard new seed growth but, if the landowner applies a light to medium fertilization after the weeds die off, this will promote the growth of the vegatation that is left. I am doing the very same thing right now with a small bluestem field that is unindated with various weeds. I may take a hit on the self reseeding results but the application of the fertilizer will more than make up for it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have sprayed Grazon on Bahia. Not only on one field but several. I've used it repetitively year after year trying to kill huisache. I've never seen it kill any Bahia. When I spray in the spring the residual didn't even hurt the clover germination in the fall.

I would completely agree! Like Dunn mentioned, if used within it's parameters, it's a very wise choice. Certainly more wise than indescriminately spraying Remedy which is like spraying $50 dollar bills up in the air, not to mention that Remedy's main claim to fame is to knock out woody type growth. Like any other product, there are very precise instructions on the label. Read them! Grazon P+D does have a residual, however, this is not all bad. The idea is to prevent unwanted vegetation from coming back. Now, if you have any mature Bahia or Bluestem already in the ground, the Grazon may retard new seed growth but, if the landowner applies a light to medium fertilization after the weeds die off, this will promote the growth of the vegatation that is left. I am doing the very same thing right now with a small bluestem field that is unindated with various weeds. I may take a hit on the self reseeding results but the application of the fertilizer will more than make up for it.

At 800 dollars a ton for fertilizer when it is not needed sounds like throwing 100 dolar bills up in the air. At 200 lb's to the acre that is only ten acre per ton. I think I will stick to my 50 dollar 2-4-D and remedy .

 

[jsm]

Just was doing some internet browsing. Seems like 2,4,D seems to have quite a short half life in comparison to picloram. Might be a better choice than grazon p+d in terms of a newely seeded pasture. Seems like the quick dissipation would kill the broadleafs and not cause too much lingering injury to freshly germinating seeds......

 

[James T]

I have sprayed Grazon on Bahia. Not only on one field but several. I've used it repetitively year after year trying to kill huisache. I've never seen it kill any Bahia. When I spray in the spring the residual didn't even hurt the clover germination in the fall.

I would completely agree! Like Dunn mentioned, if used within it's parameters, it's a very wise choice. Certainly more wise than indescriminately spraying Remedy which is like spraying $50 dollar bills up in the air, not to mention that Remedy's main claim to fame is to knock out woody type growth. Like any other product, there are very precise instructions on the label. Read them! Grazon P+D does have a residual, however, this is not all bad. The idea is to prevent unwanted vegetation from coming back. Now, if you have any mature Bahia or Bluestem already in the ground, the Grazon may retard new seed growth but, if the landowner applies a light to medium fertilization after the weeds die off, this will promote the growth of the vegatation that is left. I am doing the very same thing right now with a small bluestem field that is unindated with various weeds. I may take a hit on the self reseeding results but the application of the fertilizer will more than make up for it.

At 800 dollars a ton for fertilizer when it is not needed sounds like throwing 100 dolar bills up in the air. At 200 lb's to the acre that is only ten acre per ton. I think I will stick to my 50 dollar 2-4-D and remedy .

Not exactly. You see, the fertilization is a one time event to promote current wanted growth. With your project, you will have to spray every year to treat all of those billions of weed seed you chose not to deal with the first go around. My idea is to fertilize the good vegetation such that it will cover the ground quickly thus choking out the opportunity for any new weed growth. Your method kills current weeds but does nothing to prevent next years growth of those weed seeds still in the ground and since there is no fertilization, your current wanted growth is not as apt to spread quickly if at all. I save my Remedy for the treatment of unwanted saplings - that stuff is expensive!

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you read the post I use remedy sparing and most of the "weeds" in East Texas are woody type plant's.
Secondly 2-4 -D is dirt cheap compared to trying to fertilize your way out of weed's.
I do fetilize my pasture's I just don't like buying it for weed's. If you think you can get away with fertilizing or spraying once in East Texas you are in kidding yourself. I don't care if you use grazon at twice the cost of 2-4-D you will be spraying multiple times a year fighting tallow trees alone.

 

[greybeard]

If you read the post I use remedy sparing and most of the "weeds" in East Texas are woody type plant's.
Secondly 2-4 -D is dirt cheap compared to trying to fertilize your way out of weed's.
I do fetilize my pasture's I just don't like buying it for weed's. If you think you can get away with fertilizing or spraying once in East Texas you are in kidding yourself. I don't care if you use grazon at twice the cost of 2-4-D you will be spraying multiple times a year fighting tallow trees alone.

A few questions CB, since you are in my neck of the woods so to speak.
1. What's the latest you would spray for tallow control each year?
2. Have you ever used Crossbow? (triclopyr +2-4-D)
3. What have you done as far as mature tallow trees? (assuming you had any)
4. Which is safer as far as grazing cattle (lactating or otherwise). It looks like Grazon wants you to pull lactating cattle off for a little longer period than Remedy does.

Texas AgriLife (county agent types) are pushing Grazon left and right as the ONLY solution to tallows. I haven't used any yet, but have spot sprayed a LOT of Remedy, and as you indicate, it seems to kill it fine, and is less expensive than Grazon. I 'want' to use it and had intended to but if Remedy does the same job, I don't see any sense in killing off germinating bahia seeds. I also have problems with the warnings on any Picloram in regards to waterways. East Fork San Jacinto River is my east property line and all my property drains to it, and my pond system augments my water supply for the livestock. (not to mention my catfish, crappie, and bass population)

I don't think CB, that folks in other parts of the country get a full grasp of the problems associated with tallow trees. I'm sure they have their own form of invasives, but if I could ever lay my hands of the fellas that first brought chinese tallows to this country I'd string 'em up in one and there ain't a jury in E Texas that would ever convict me for it. On my place, a tallow seedling will go from 2" tall to 4-5 feet tall in a single growing seaason and be dropping THOUSANDS of seeds that fall, each one just waiting for a little sunlight and moisture the nest year. You can mow 'em from now till the lord returns and you'll never kill a single one of them. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you read the post I use remedy sparing and most of the "weeds" in East Texas are woody type plant's.
Secondly 2-4 -D is dirt cheap compared to trying to fertilize your way out of weed's.
I do fetilize my pasture's I just don't like buying it for weed's. If you think you can get away with fertilizing or spraying once in East Texas you are in kidding yourself. I don't care if you use grazon at twice the cost of 2-4-D you will be spraying multiple times a year fighting tallow trees alone.

A few questions CB, since you are in my neck of the woods so to speak.
1. What's the latest you would spray for tallow control each year?
2. Have you ever used Crossbow? (triclopyr +2-4-D)
3. What have you done as far as mature tallow trees? (assuming you had any)
4. Which is safer as far as grazing cattle (lactating or otherwise). It looks like Grazon wants you to pull lactating cattle off for a little longer period than Remedy does.

Texas AgriLife (county agent types) are pushing Grazon left and right as the ONLY solution to tallows. I haven't used any yet, but have spot sprayed a LOT of Remedy, and as you indicate, it seems to kill it fine, and is less expensive than Grazon. I 'want' to use it and had intended to but if Remedy does the same job, I don't see any sense in killing off germinating bahia seeds. I also have problems with the warnings on any Picloram in regards to waterways. East Fork San Jacinto River is my east property line and all my property drains to it, and my pond system augments my water supply for the livestock. (not to mention my catfish, crappie, and bass population)

I don't think CB, that folks in other parts of the country get a full grasp of the problems associated with tallow trees. I'm sure they have their own form of invasives, but if I could ever lay my hands of the fellas that first brought chinese tallows to this country I'd string 'em up in one and there ain't a jury in E Texas that would ever convict me for it. On my place, a tallow seedling will go from 2" tall to 4-5 feet tall in a single growing seaason and be dropping THOUSANDS of seeds that fall, each one just waiting for a little sunlight and moisture the nest year. You can mow 'em from now till the lord returns and you'll never kill a single one of them. I learned that the hard way.

The irony is Cattlemen brought the tallow tree in for a wind brake on the coastal parrie and now the parrie is gone.
I have some of the same issues as you do ,have pasture in the fork's of two creeks that come under the clean water act.
Remedy is not my favorite herbicde due to cost 2-4- D is. I agrresively spot spray larger tallow's that appear like magic with Remedy + 2-4-D , you know what I am talking about. If I find a larger tree I cut it and spray the stump with 2-4-D + diesel.
My agent was pushing at all the seminar's as well because the company rep was buying the lunches. When I ask could they get it stop killing my bahia,bermuda ,clover and rye grass seed I would buy it. They wanted to change the subject.
I don't have to replant winter pastures due to not using grazon my seed bank is safe and killing off my rye and clover seeds was very costly.
I like to spray once in early spring when they first leaf out along with catching the berrries in bloom. Then in about a month come back and get the one's I missed. Some how there is alway's some of those. Most of the other weed problems can be addressed with proper soil ph as acidity is a big problem here . Get the soil ph right spraying requirements go way down except for the tallow trees. Neighbor upstream has a pasture full of tallow's I have offered to spray his pasture, he is another nut that thinks you can control by cutting. Guess who is getting the seed.
As for as cattle safety 2-4-D versus Grazon is six of one half dozen of the other as Grazon is 2-4 -D with P.
As far as Crossbow I have used it and found it to be no more effective than the cheapest 2-4 D I could find.

I think everybody should have a five gallon bucket of fire ant's and Chinese Tallow seeds for Christmas.
You would either learn how to fight or give up and move.

 

[James T]

If you read the post I use remedy sparing and most of the "weeds" in East Texas are woody type plant's.
Secondly 2-4 -D is dirt cheap compared to trying to fertilize your way out of weed's.
I do fetilize my pasture's I just don't like buying it for weed's. If you think you can get away with fertilizing or spraying once in East Texas you are in kidding yourself. I don't care if you use grazon at twice the cost of 2-4-D you will be spraying multiple times a year fighting tallow trees alone.

If you killed the weeds and their seeds first you wouldn't be fertilizing the weeds and second, if you did a soil test and made the recommended soil corrections you would find that that the weeds couldn't compete with your desirable grasses to begin with. Most folks just go out and spray and spray and spray every year, trying out this product and then another. If they would just spend $15 bucks for the soil test, make the corrections, then spray, the stress on the pocketbook would be a whole lot less in the long run. It doesn't stop there. If you hay the grass then nutrient corrections have to be made to make up for the loss out the gate. Otherwise, weeds re-invade the property. If you have weeds, odds are, you have crappy soil chemistry.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you read the post I use remedy sparing and most of the "weeds" in East Texas are woody type plant's.
Secondly 2-4 -D is dirt cheap compared to trying to fertilize your way out of weed's.
I do fetilize my pasture's I just don't like buying it for weed's. If you think you can get away with fertilizing or spraying once in East Texas you are in kidding yourself. I don't care if you use grazon at twice the cost of 2-4-D you will be spraying multiple times a year fighting tallow trees alone.

If you killed the weeds and their seeds first you wouldn't be fertilizing the weeds and second, if you did a soil test and made the recommended soil corrections you would find that that the weeds couldn't compete with your desirable grasses to begin with. Most folks just go out and spray and spray and spray every year, trying out this product and then another. If they would just spend $15 bucks for the soil test, make the corrections, then spray, the stress on the pocketbook would be a whole lot less in the long run. It doesn't stop there. If you hay the grass then nutrient corrections have to be made to make up for the loss out the gate. Otherwise, weeds re-invade the property. If you have weeds, odds are, you have crappy soil chemistry.

You just need a bucket of Chinese Tallow seeds, better yet get a neighbor upstream to plant them.
I think a tallow will grow on asphalt you might not have them yet but they are coming.
Before it is over tallow's will be like hog's you have them are your going to have them.