Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

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Till-Hill":36ce2ie2 said:
ddd75":36ce2ie2 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":36ce2ie2 said:
ddd - are you saying they are 12-14 months old when they CALVE or when they get BRED?
i had one calve this year at 14 months. Most of mine calve around 18 months old.
Do you calve year round then or how about do you get a defined calving season calving that early?

Penn State did a research project when I was in college we read about. They got Holstein heifers big enough and sexually mature to calve at 18 months. The milk lost in that lactation was unreal compared to the ones that calved on average at 24 months. It was around 8-9,000#. They other issue was some of their udders were not developed enough to even make any milk at all.
almost all my calves are born in spring, so they usually all grow and breed back at the same time. When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO.

They have plenty of milk and all the calves grow great, I top the market or near it everytime I take in any.

I raised a lot of sheep and their is a big debate on the same thing.. Research has shown and proven that earlier lambing gives more longevity and production per animal. It also helps their body develop more properly to have offspring. From what I've done I'd say the same holds true for cattle.
 
"almost all my calves are born in spring, so they usually all grow and breed back at the same time. When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO."
Please clarify. If you calve in the spring (March, April, June??)
Any heifer calves born in June (youngest) would be 22 months old if they calved in March.
I'm not understanding where the "most calve around 18 months old"?? That would mean "most" calve in the fall if born in the spring.
When a bull breeds a 5 month old heifer (5 + 9 = 14 months old) - I consider that rape - and I would lutalyse her to abort the calf. You must have miracle cattle to survive that management IMHO Glad it works for you.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3ckzittq said:
"almost all my calves are born in spring, so they usually all grow and breed back at the same time. When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO."
Please clarify. If you calve in the spring (March, April, June??)
Any heifer calves born in June (youngest) would be 22 months old if they calved in March.
I'm not understanding where the "most calve around 18 months old"?? That would mean "most" calve in the fall if born in the spring.
When a bull breeds a 5 month old heifer (5 + 9 = 14 months old) - I consider that rape - and I would lutalyse her to abort the calf. You must have miracle cattle to survive that management IMHO Glad it works for you.

most of my heifers last year calved early feb.

I DO NOT support rape. I will tell my bull to stop that.
 
"most of my heifers last year calved early feb."
So, "most of your heifers" calved at the age of 21 months at the youngest??? obviously, if they were born in the months of spring.
How many are you having calve in the fall at the age of 18 months? Or, in the summer, at the age of 14 months? Your statements are confusing.

"When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO. "
If you think having 5-6 month old heifers bred to calve at 14 months old or 9 months old to calve at 18 months, is good management, then I would have to "assume" you have no management. That statement indicates the bull runs free to breed anything at any time and you think that is good.
 
The math certainly does not add up here. On average they calve at 18 months but keeps a tight calving window. That's not possible with a 9 month gestation period. I'm lost also.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1z9ly5vn said:
"most of my heifers last year calved early feb."
So, "most of your heifers" calved at the age of 21 months at the youngest??? obviously, if they were born in the months of spring.
How many are you having calve in the fall at the age of 18 months? Or, in the summer, at the age of 14 months? Your statements are confusing.

"When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO. "
If you think having 5-6 month old heifers bred to calve at 14 months old or 9 months old to calve at 18 months, is good management, then I would have to "assume" you have no management. That statement indicates the bull runs free to breed anything at any time and you think that is good.


Most of my cows are in pretty tight window, I don't have all the records right here and don't care enough to look them up for you. I just look at the ages when the have a calf and they are usually 18 months old.

yes they calve whenever, you don't know my situation right now I'm still converting a row crop farm into cattle so I don't have pens for bulls.

If you ever read BEEF magazine they agree with me that heifers can be bred at 55% mature weight, which my cows are at when they are bred.
 
Still doesn't add up. Like I stated - no management.
You may have been really, really lucky getting live calves out of 14 month old heifers, but the majority of "cattle" people would NEVER take that gamble.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":dtcajjan said:
Still doesn't add up. Like I stated - no management.
You may have been really, really lucky getting live calves out of 14 month old heifers, but the majority of "cattle" people would NEVER take that gamble.

its only happened 1 time, something I don't want to see either.
 
If a calf is born in March and bred in December I bet she will have another the next fall. Kinda lost on this one
 
Your contradictory statements make it difficult to follow your program. Either you calve spring & fall with 18 month old heifers- or you have 22-24 month old heifers calving in the spring. Which is it?
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2poz13ei said:
Your contradictory statements make it difficult to follow your program. Either you calve spring & fall with 18 month old heifers- or you have 22-24 month old heifers calving in the spring. Which is it?
you worry about your program, i'll worry about mine.
 
Trust me, I don't worry about YOUR program. I worry about you giving "newbies" the wrong idea. I try to clarify "broad" statements.
You state you calve in the spring. You state most of your heifers calve at 18 months. On my calendar, that is an impossibility. Just saying, be a little clearer - or more accurate.
I have asked you to explain, and you go around the questions.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":33rn2bp7 said:
Trust me, I don't worry about YOUR program. I worry about you giving "newbies" the wrong idea. I try to clarify "broad" statements.
You state you calve in the spring. You state most of your heifers calve at 18 months. On my calendar, that is an impossibility. Just saying, be a little clearer - or more accurate.
I have asked you to explain, and you go around the questions.


Right.. I'm giviing "newbies the wrong idea.. yet Beef magazine agress 100% with me with proven research.
 
I would really like to read that article. I read all the Beef Magazine e-blasts (weekly & daily) for my newsletter and that has completely escaped my reading.
Just because 1 person "might" have made a statement, does not make it true or useful. Let's see the research.
Besides, you still ignore the fact that your "facts" about your calving 18 month old heifers don't add up.
I am NOT trying to start an argument. I tend to avoid conflict. But, I do like to deal in facts. It is my position to be an educator. Have worked with the NY Junior Beef Producers and the adult group for probably more years than you have been in the business. Facts are facts. Let's deal with them.
 
Our calves are born first part of March to end of April. We turn the bulls out with the heifers same time as we turn them in with the bulls. If they aren't bred up in time to fit the calving window they leave. Heifer retention seems to be fine, so that's the program we stick with.
 
ddd75":35e1j1oa said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":35e1j1oa said:
Trust me, I don't worry about YOUR program. I worry about you giving "newbies" the wrong idea. I try to clarify "broad" statements.
You state you calve in the spring. You state most of your heifers calve at 18 months. On my calendar, that is an impossibility. Just saying, be a little clearer - or more accurate.
I have asked you to explain, and you go around the questions.


Right.. I'm giviing "newbies the wrong idea.. yet Beef magazine agress 100% with me with proven research.

Do show :pop:
 
since you are so educated and have so much experience in every area please do give your expert advice on what the target weight % would be to show my dumb uneducated, inexperienced a$$ ?

Thanks.
 
oh look what I found..


In this new era of elevated feed costs (both grain and hay), developing heifers from weaning to breeding involves a substantial investment. And, if heifers developed this winter fail to re-breed after their first calf next summer, much of the cost associated with developing them will not be recovered.

To avoid non-pregnant 2- and 3-year old cows at the end of the breeding season, producers are considering altering the nutritional development of heifers between weaning and first breeding. One of the quickest ways to maximize reproductive performance is to provide more nutrients. However, based on recently-reported data, this is probably not the most economical solution.

A New Approach
Historically, heifers have been developed to weigh approximately 60-65% of their mature body weight at breeding time (about 13-14 months old), in an effort to increase pregnancy rate. This practice has been based largely on evidence that: 1) increased energy intake during development improves heifer pregnancy rate, and 2) heifers developed to a body weight less than 65% take longer to re-breed after calving as a 2-year old. Yet, some argue that increasing the amount of feed provided (which increases costs substantially) in order to increase pregnancy rate leads to a long-term cycle of elevating costs and declining profitability on a cattle operation.

Several researchers have begun to explore the possibility of developing heifers at a slower rate, which ultimately leads to weights at first breeding that are lighter than historical averages. Nebraska research led by Dr. Rick Funston compared the long-term reproductive performance of two groups of crossbred heifers developed to 53% (low gain) and 58% (high gain) of mature body weight. The heifers were developed on identical rations (hay, wheat middlings, corn, and supplement), except for a difference in corn to reflect the increased gain in the "high gain" heifers. Interestingly, there was no difference between the two groups for pregnancy rates through the fourth breeding season (Table 1).

An economic evaluation was conducted by University of Nebraska researchers to follow-up on the reduced gain concept. The above data were used, in addition to data from an experiment by Creighton (also in Nebraska) where two development systems were compared: low gain (to 50% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 60 days) vs. high gain (to 55% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 45 days). Similarly, the low gain heifers had a pregnancy rate of 87% in a 60-day season compared to a pregnancy rate of 89% in a 45-day breeding season in the high gain heifers.

Using estimated feed costs and cattle prices over an 11-year period, the "low gain" heifers cost $27 per bred heifer less than the "high gain" heifers (Table 2), when data were averaged over the 11-year period. Average calf birth date, weight, difficulty, and loss were similar for both treatments, as well as calf gain and weaning weight
. It should be noted that this analysis was conducted prior to the recent hike in grain and hay prices. Thus, it's possible that cost savings could be even larger today.



Looks like 50 - 55% target weight.. I was RIGHT ON.. These are LOW weight heifers. I'm sure it would be even more difference if they used low weight 50% vs. an average 65% weight.

Looks like maybe the teacher needs to go back to school. :nod:

$$$$$ in your pocket for the entire life of that cow.


BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! goes the dynamite..
 
ddd posted:
"No problems ever breeding back. I had a 14 month old give birth to a really nice bull calf this year. He's still on her ( I really need to wean him) and I was afraid she was too small.. she was like 800 lbs when she had him.. He was around 55 lb calf. She's grown great (no grain) and her calf looks really good. You can't tell him apart from any of my other calves."

"Anything around 650 - 700 lbs IMO is ready to bred.. which for my cows would be around 60% of full growth weight."

"yea.. they are usually around that mark at around weaning time. I usually wean off at around 8 months old."


"crazy to me how some people will hold a heifer until 2 to get bred.. then she's almost 3 before she calves?! mine have already thrown out a 2nd."

"I also give them some extra time to breed back. But they are usually on time. I try to take the calf off them early but this year I wasn't able to do it."

"almost all my calves are born in spring, so they usually all grow and breed back at the same time. When a bull breeds them they are ready IMO."

Yes, I read that article back when they posted it.
I have never debated the 50-55% or 60-65% issue.
I asked you to explain the "calving in the spring" and calving heifers at "mostly 18 months" old.

You say your heifers are having their 2nd calf by the age of 3 yrs old. Well, so are mine & most everyone else's in this business. i know some breeders don't breed them until they are 2 years of age to calve around 3 years, but most of them have breeds that don't mature at a younger age and some have their mind set on thinking they won't have any calving difficulties at that age. That's their breeding management decision.

This conversation has totally blown out of proportion. I did not (and do not) agree with breeding heifers at the age of 9 months. That's your choice. I was just trying to clarify how you were calving at 18 months old and not calving year round??? You wean at 8 months of age, so you must turn the bull in with heifers at 9 months old??
It boils down to your math and most other people's do not match up.
From what I can determine, you wean at 8 months old, turn the bull out with them at 9 months, calve them in the fall, then give them extra time to breed back, so they are bred with the cowherd to calve in the spring at 3 years old. Does that fit?
 

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