Reliable cow

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KNERSIE

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It always interests me to hear about reliable cows and reliable cow families from cattlemen who have been in the business long.

Here is a pretty ordinary cow that is so far very reliable.

Here she is as a springing heifer
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This is her heifer calf of last year
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This is her 2008 bullcalf as a newborn
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6 months later
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Taken this week
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Curious to hear what the other hereford breeders think of a red splash on the face like this calf has. Suppose its one of the side effects of trying to breed for goggle eyes.
 

mitch2

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You have the most beautiful herf's I have ever seen. :nod:

Michele
 

Wewild

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I don't see anything ordinary in those pictures. Nice looking animals.
 

Lorenzo

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I like very much her heifer calf from last year. Very nice hereford you have there in SA :nod:

L
 

cypressfarms

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That is one nice looking bull calf. Really thick! I kind of like the coloring by his eye, wouldn't mind one bit giving him a visa to visit Louisiana.
 

LoveMoo11

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WOW! He's almost as big as his mumma in the pic!! Looks like that cow has done well by you. Even if a cow isn't the best looking (not saying yours isn't!!!!!!) as long as she produces beautiful healthy calves reliably, that's good enough for me!! I have one cow that has consistently given me show calves.
 

donnaIL

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very nice and reliable, like the neat udders. Are you keeping the bull for breeding or do you band/cut them later?
 

HerefordSire

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Minor discount if you were selling. It retained, I don't think you could reproduce it even if you crossed the parents again. I am guessing the odds would probably be 7600 to 1 to do it again.
 

Ned Jr.

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Very nice looking heifers. Don't they ever pick their heads up? :D The bull calf looks loaded with muscle. As far as his markings I know some breeders wouldn't like it but personally I'll take pigment anyway I can get it. I use to have a bull that looked like he had the state of Mississippi on his forehead.
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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donnaIL":3tqfeagp said:
very nice and reliable, like the neat udders. Are you keeping the bull for breeding or do you band/cut them later?

The bullcalf will stay intact for now, there is no guarantee that he'll stay a bull though. I band the commercial calves when I tag them, the bullcalves in the registerd herd remains intact till at least weaning unless they have obvious faults as newborns or have no eye and scrotal pigment.
 

Aaron

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KNERSIE":9b07451a said:
Curious to hear what the other hereford breeders think of a red splash on the face like this calf has. Suppose its one of the side effects of trying to breed for goggle eyes.

I wouldn't buy a Hereford like that. Freckles are one thing, but this is a whole new thing. I warned people about the prevalence of this years ago and that keeping them begins to downgrade the purebreds in the breed into 'crossbreds', with some having so much red that they could be easily called Simmental or a Red Angus X. I actually looked at a support photo for an A.I. Herf sire for ABS Global the other day. Can't remember if it was a daughter or the dam...but had I not known it was a Hereford cow, I would have said she was a Simmental cow....too much red that went from the neck, past the poll and jaw into the eyes, basically making her a blaze face cow.

The marks are heriditary, like any mark. Purebred Herf neighbour used a bull that threw the majority of his calves with a mark like this. First bull he had ever used that had done that. When he sold his calves, everyone asked when he had bought a Red Angus bull. He told them he was a purebred Herf bull and people called him a liar or that it was evidence that the Hereford breed is tainted. He kept heifers off of that bull and even though they are conservatively marked, they will throw calves that have those unusual markings. The calves might sell better, but they don't do justice to the breed if they are sold as purebreds as a lot of commercial guys discount them as crossbreds...and I do to. :cowboy:
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":2onub9fl said:
Minor discount if you were selling. It retained, I don't think you could reproduce it even if you crossed the parents again. I am guessing the odds would probably be 7600 to 1 to do it again.

Do you have a internet link or a university study to support your guess? ;-)

I don't think he's very likely to sire red splashes like that, his sire did, but they were mostly on the neck just below the ear.

but they don't do justice to the breed if they are sold as purebreds as a lot of commercial guys discount them as crossbreds...and I do to.

I personally don't like the red splash, I don't like freckles either, but unfortunately its a fact of life that the breed needs to address the ongoing eye issues. Although I know that pigment alone won't do much, it certainly helps putting the ghosts of the past to rest and it helps sell bulls.

As far as being crossbred, it depends where you buy your seedstock from. My entire herd was DNA tested two years ago as part of a international study to determine the purity of Herefords world wide, including the dam of the bullcalf. The sire is a AI sire and he was also tested. Both my herd and the sire tested 100% pure hereford. You can see it as the result of selection pressure for pigment or can even call it a mutation, but calling it a crossbred is pushing it when the evidence is there to disprove it.
 

alexfarms

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Aaron":25uu8qos said:
KNERSIE":25uu8qos said:
Curious to hear what the other hereford breeders think of a red splash on the face like this calf has. Suppose its one of the side effects of trying to breed for goggle eyes.

I wouldn't buy a Hereford like that. Freckles are one thing, but this is a whole new thing. I warned people about the prevalence of this years ago and that keeping them begins to downgrade the purebreds in the breed into 'crossbreds', with some having so much red that they could be easily called Simmental or a Red Angus X. I actually looked at a support photo for an A.I. Herf sire for ABS Global the other day. Can't remember if it was a daughter or the dam...but had I not known it was a Hereford cow, I would have said she was a Simmental cow....too much red that went from the neck, past the poll and jaw into the eyes, basically making her a blaze face cow.

The marks are heriditary, like any mark. Purebred Herf neighbour used a bull that threw the majority of his calves with a mark like this. First bull he had ever used that had done that. When he sold his calves, everyone asked when he had bought a Red Angus bull. He told them he was a purebred Herf bull and people called him a liar or that it was evidence that the Hereford breed is tainted. He kept heifers off of that bull and even though they are conservatively marked, they will throw calves that have those unusual markings. The calves might sell better, but they don't do justice to the breed if they are sold as purebreds as a lot of commercial guys discount them as crossbreds...and I do to. :cowboy:
My father disliked red necks. He used to say red necks will sire anything. Back in the '60s, he had a lamplighter bull that was a redneck and he got calves where the white actually broke down over the shoulder almost making the calves look spotted. He always said pick one that is marked just right, with a nice short feather. I think there is some merit to your opinion, Aaron, but there is a desire by many to make Herefords a blaze faced breed. The thinking is to help against eye problems. If this calf in the pic is a very good bull, I probably wouldn't let the spot on the face trouble me.
john
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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but there is a desire by many to make Herefords a blaze faced breed. The thinking is to help against eye problems.

Hope that never happens here, the white face trademark is something we should cling to as if our lives depended on it. A blaze face alone or pigment alone won't do much for eye problems the total package needs to be adressed.

If this calf in the pic is a very good bull, I probably wouldn't let the spot on the face trouble me.

That is my thinking as well. I like a very correct marked calf in the traditional sense, but as soon as a marking desides the quality of a animal we're on the wrong track.

Aaron do you know how much the standard set for markings in the USA (back when herefords were the breed) differ from the traditional markings in the UK? If you ever get the chance visit the offices of the International Hereford breed association in Offa Street in Hereford, they have lots of old paintings and photos there that will surprize you. I also visited with the Llandinabo, Free Town and other herds that have traditional herefords (ie herefords that traces directly back to the original herdbook of 1846 without any outside influence) you'll be surprized at the amount of flashy marked calves.
 

Aaron

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KNERSIE":touyrmzj said:
but there is a desire by many to make Herefords a blaze faced breed. The thinking is to help against eye problems.

Hope that never happens here, the white face trademark is something we should cling to as if our lives depended on it. A blaze face alone or pigment alone won't do much for eye problems the total package needs to be adressed.

If this calf in the pic is a very good bull, I probably wouldn't let the spot on the face trouble me.

That is my thinking as well. I like a very correct marked calf in the traditional sense, but as soon as a marking desides the quality of a animal we're on the wrong track.

Aaron do you know how much the standard set for markings in the USA (back when herefords were the breed) differ from the traditional markings in the UK? If you ever get the chance visit the offices of the International Hereford breed association in Offa Street in Hereford, they have lots of old paintings and photos there that will surprize you. I also visited with the Llandinabo, Free Town and other herds that have traditional herefords (ie herefords that traces directly back to the original herdbook of 1846 without any outside influence) you'll be surprized at the amount of flashy marked calves.

I have no problem with freckle faces and linebacks, as this is Pidgeon and Mottle had for markings. Beyond that, I am not aware of any other purebred Herf's in previous centuries that had big patches of red on their faces. It's hard enough to sell linebacks and mottle-faces to commercial guys as purebreds. At least I have some history to back those markings up with. I wouldn't even try to sell blaze-faces. Or bulls with unusual markings. I still meet people that use the featherneck as an indication of purity. :cowboy:
 

Aaron

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KNERSIE":20pcla5x said:
but there is a desire by many to make Herefords a blaze faced breed. The thinking is to help against eye problems.

Hope that never happens here, the white face trademark is something we should cling to as if our lives depended on it. A blaze face alone or pigment alone won't do much for eye problems the total package needs to be adressed.

If this calf in the pic is a very good bull, I probably wouldn't let the spot on the face trouble me.

That is my thinking as well. I like a very correct marked calf in the traditional sense, but as soon as a marking desides the quality of a animal we're on the wrong track.

Aaron do you know how much the standard set for markings in the USA (back when herefords were the breed) differ from the traditional markings in the UK? If you ever get the chance visit the offices of the International Hereford breed association in Offa Street in Hereford, they have lots of old paintings and photos there that will surprize you. I also visited with the Llandinabo, Free Town and other herds that have traditional herefords (ie herefords that traces directly back to the original herdbook of 1846 without any outside influence) you'll be surprized at the amount of flashy marked calves.

I have no problem with freckle faces and linebacks, as this is Pidgeon and Mottle had for markings. Beyond that, I am not aware of any other purebred Herf's in previous centuries that had big patches of red on their faces. It's hard enough to sell linebacks and mottle-faces to commercial guys as purebreds. At least I have some history to back those markings up with. I wouldn't even try to sell blaze-faces. Or bulls with unusual markings. I still meet people that use the featherneck as an indication of purity. :cowboy:
 
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KNERSIE

KNERSIE

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I still meet people that use the featherneck as an indication of purity.

One should never confuse showring whims with the traditional markings of the breed.

As I am sure you know, I think the jump from belt buckle high ponies to frame 10 racehorses happened just too fast to be completely believable. I personally don't see the value in red socks or a redneck or even conservatively marked cattle. As long as its good cattle that looks like traditional herefords with a pure ancesty, that's good enough for me.
 

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