Reds Worth More Than Blacks Now?

Help Support CattleToday:

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
I noticed the cattle markets dropped drastically recently as expected and predicted. Are reds selling for more than blacks now? If so, what could be some of the reasons?
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
I might give an opinion later if I have sufficient time. I did notice buying support on lives in the very low 80s. The reasoning for recent weakness cooincides with the US dollar moving downward swiftly all of the sudden which is a little surprising. I would normally expect the opposite action to occur. There is another market force coming into play all of the sudden. Maybe Canada and the US liquidating?
 

alacattleman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
4,141
Reaction score
0
Location
heart of dixie
HerefordSire":jy83gsa8 said:
I might give an opinion later if I have sufficient time. I did notice buying support on lives in the very low 80s. The reasoning for recent weakness cooincides with the US dollar moving downward swiftly all of the sudden which is a little surprising. I would normally expect the opposite action to occur. There is another market force coming into play all of the sudden. Maybe Canada and the US liquidating?
:lol:
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
alacattleman":2d7ix3lp said:
HerefordSire":2d7ix3lp said:
I might give an opinion later if I have sufficient time. I did notice buying support on lives in the very low 80s. The reasoning for recent weakness cooincides with the US dollar moving downward swiftly all of the sudden which is a little surprising. I would normally expect the opposite action to occur. There is another market force coming into play all of the sudden. Maybe Canada and the US liquidating?
:lol:


Complete with charts, etc.

I am kind of on a tight schedule today and leaving town soon.
 

Australian

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
0
Location
Northern New England Region, Tenterfield NSW Austr
There has been a significant lift in prices for Herefords at production sales these past couple of months. Angus prices are still pretty good but coming back to more realistic prices. I believe they are not marbling as well as first promoted. It will be interesting to see how cattle prices go when the season improves. The Australian dollar is predicted to be equal to the US dollar very shortly ( its about 90 cents at the moment) There's always an excuse as to why the cattle prices are low they always seem to blame the dollar ( Aust to US ) I can't figure because we don't sell a lot to the US.
 

alftn

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
645
Reaction score
0
Location
Tn.
Reds may be worth more than blacks, TO THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THEM, but the sale barn around here does not reflect that....It might be location mo0re than anything else....
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
Australian":28iacq8w said:
There has been a significant lift in prices for Herefords at production sales these past couple of months. Angus prices are still pretty good but coming back to more realistic prices. I believe they are not marbling as well as first promoted. It will be interesting to see how cattle prices go when the season improves. The Australian dollar is predicted to be equal to the US dollar very shortly ( its about 90 cents at the moment) There's always an excuse as to why the cattle prices are low they always seem to blame the dollar ( Aust to US ) I can't figure because we don't sell a lot to the US.


As long as the market is healthy and the black buyers are agressive, premiums are received for blacks. However, when the market is down and weak, the reality for black versus reds sets in. The reality could be that reds deserve more money than blacks to compersate for biased marketing and too many blacks hitting the markets because they are overrated.
 

Frankie

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
6,915
Reaction score
0
Location
Oklahoma
HerefordSire":tb0hjxvf said:
As long as the market is healthy and the black buyers are agressive, premiums are received for blacks. However, when the market is down and weak, the reality for black versus reds sets in. The reality could be that reds deserve more money than blacks to compersate for biased marketing and too many blacks hitting the markets because they are overrated.

Oh, I think you're wrong. As the market drops, I think there's going to be a bigger difference in prices, not smaller. The word "Angus" is still in the majority of USDA approved branded beef programs. If you're a buyer with $X, are you going to buy a black steer that will work in a dozen branded beef programs or one that might only fit one or two?

Reds "deserve" more money? Maybe in your world..... :???:


USDA Branded Beef programs:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fet ... acct=lsstd
 

Herefords.US

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
2,066
Reaction score
4
Location
North Central Texas
Frankie":1f8r33t2 said:
HerefordSire":1f8r33t2 said:
As long as the market is healthy and the black buyers are agressive, premiums are received for blacks. However, when the market is down and weak, the reality for black versus reds sets in. The reality could be that reds deserve more money than blacks to compersate for biased marketing and too many blacks hitting the markets because they are overrated.

Oh, I think you're wrong. As the market drops, I think there's going to be a bigger difference in prices, not smaller. The word "Angus" is still in the majority of USDA approved branded beef programs. If you're a buyer with $X, are you going to buy a black steer that will work in a dozen branded beef programs or one that might only fit one or two?

Reds "deserve" more money? Maybe in your world..... :???:

Actually, frankie, I think HS might have stumbled onto something! We breeders of red cattle simply need to pool together and inform the government that we are victims of color discrimination. Then we get a bill passed that subsidizes us for raising red cattle, enough that offsets (or even more!) the unfair advantage that you black cattle breeders now enjoy!

That's becoming "the American way", isn't it?

Don't worry, HS, sooner or later, we shall overcome! :tiphat:

George
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
When the markets are weak and depressed, the truth sets in. All the marketing money becomes overhead that cannot be recouped. The reds can end up having higher margins, in this case, because of all the money spent on controlling minds. It should show up in a couple of places first, starting with the breed associations that advertise the most, wanting to charge more fees. If you raise blacks, your margins should be squeezed more than usual and if raising reds, premiums could be received because the supply is not there.
 

Frankie

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
6,915
Reaction score
0
Location
Oklahoma
HerefordSire":3l7i7169 said:
When the markets are weak and depressed, the truth sets in. All the marketing money becomes overhead that cannot be recouped. The reds can end up having higher margins, in this case, because of all the money spent on controlling minds. It should show up in a couple of places first, starting with the breed associations that advertise the most, wanting to charge more fees. If you raise blacks, your margins should be squeezed more than usual and if raising reds, premiums could be received because the supply is not there.


The truth has set in. Consumers pay more for branded beef. Packers and retailers get more money for branded beef, so they have more money to pay for an animal that will fit the branded beef program. The money comes from the consumer.

There's little difference in what it costs a commercial cattle man to raise a red or black calf. In fact, there are probably a lot more reasonably priced black bulls out there than red bulls. Especially when you add the breeds that used to be red or spotted.

Premiums might be received when demand exceeds supply. But first you've got to get the demand up.
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
Demand can be the same or lower and still have higher prices and spreads because the supply has been decreasing at a faster rate. In the opposite token, the demand can be constant or increasing but the supply increases at a faster rate and thereby lowering prices and spreads. This is what I think is happening because the reality of the biased firms in question is finally being understood. The truth is becoming known. I am expecting a violent turnover.
 

kenny thomas

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
11,040
Reaction score
1,036
Location
SW tip of Virginia
Already worth as much if you get the right calves. If you don't believe it try to buy some of BRG's Red Angus genetics. Not just his calves but calves from the people who use his bulls. Their heifers are higher than any black steers here.
Reds are still discounted here but we don't have many good ones either.
 
OP
H

HerefordSire

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
5,212
Reaction score
0
Location
Arkansas
kenny thomas":2q1yqo6l said:
Already worth as much if you get the right calves. If you don't believe it try to buy some of BRG's Red Angus genetics. Not just his calves but calves from the people who use his bulls. Their heifers are higher than any black steers here.
Reds are still discounted here but we don't have many good ones either.

Even if you had the exact same quality of a red and a black bull, I am thinking the red will be higher priced than the black. Same thing for market steers but to a lesser degree.
 

Latest posts

Top