Red River or Mojo crabgrass in fescue pastures

[Mark Reynolds]

I did not know that Grazon will kill crabgrass... But I wish I'd heard that a few weeks ago....

Depending on how I read that.....either: "Man, I wish I had applied Grazon!" or, and I think more likely, "NO!, there goes (went) half (hopefully less) of my forage in that pasture!"

 

[sstterry]

A friendly reminder to those that don't know. An animal that has been fed forage that has been treated with Grazon, will have manure that contains Grazon. Never fertilize a garden or flower bed with manure from cattle that have been on pasture or hay that was treated with Grazon.

Search this Board and you will see stories of people that did not know.

 

[dave_shelby]

I am going to ask about 24-d-b. I generally dig thistle but for badly infested spots consider herbicide. I've used grazon and duracor but both kill seedbank resulting in bare spots.

 

[Allenw]

I hadn't heard of it either until I was talking with guy at local feed store/elevator. I was talking about I hate killing out my clover with spray and he mentioned it because it won't kill clover. Said he's only got few guys that use it and typically for soybeans.

I had read earlier about 24D B formulation in an article about drift damage from 24D and the B formulation was the least likely to cause damage to nearby plants. If I remember correctly they were using cotton as the plant to check for drift damage. The 24D B formulation is for spraying 24D resistant soybeans.

 

[SoilBuilder]

It works well in that it breaks up the compaction and doesn't destroy the Bahia.

what type of crabgrass grows as a companion to your bahia grass?

 

[Silver]

Not the weed of the OP, but interesting nonetheless IMHO with regards to Grazon

I turned my sprayer on last year while going through this pasture. The path I took is now quite obvious.


Unsprayed, right side of above picture



Sprayed, from left side of top picture.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I've been using Grazon or Gunslinger this year. It's generic Grazon. Thinking I might try 24D-b next year

Before you spend much money on it, test on a small spot. It didn't kill much of anything here. Set it back briefly. YMMV and it could have been operator error on my part.

 

[simme]

I don't have any experience with 2,4-DB, but a google search shows that it is used/labeled for crops (soybeans, peanuts, alfalfa). No mention of pasture. Appears that it is only effective on some broadleaf weeds at an early stage of growth. Some species controlled if they are less than 1" tall, some if they are less than 2" tall, some if they are less than 3" tall. Morning glory and cocklebur controlled up to 36" tall. So, seems like being able to use it on clover comes with some disadvantages.

Corteva has promised a new herbicide for several years that will control more weeds than 2,4-D, but will not kill white clover. Name is ProClova. So far, it has not received EPA approval. But has recently been approved in Germany. Maybe there is hope that it will soon be available in the US.

ProClova™ Herbicide

ProClova™ Herbicide Offers Weed Control While Preserving White Clover, Pending Registration

www.corteva.us

 

[fnfarms1]

I don't have any experience with 2,4-DB, but a google search shows that it is used/labeled for crops (soybeans, peanuts, alfalfa). No mention of pasture. Appears that it is only effective on some broadleaf weeds at an early stage of growth. Some species controlled if they are less than 1" tall, some if they are less than 2" tall, some if they are less than 3" tall. Morning glory and cocklebur controlled up to 36" tall. So, seems like being able to use it on clover comes with some disadvantages.

Corteva has promised a new herbicide for several years that will control more weeds than 2,4-D, but will not kill white clover. Name is ProClova. So far, it has not received EPA approval. But has recently been approved in Germany. Maybe there is hope that it will soon be available in the US.

ProClova™ Herbicide

ProClova™ Herbicide Offers Weed Control While Preserving White Clover, Pending Registration

www.corteva.us

I've heard of the ProClova but it's been years trying to get approval. I figure they must not be bribing the right politicians

 

[HatCreekCattleco]

Depending on how I read that.....either: "Man, I wish I had applied Grazon!" or, and I think more likely, "NO!, there goes (went) half (hopefully less) of my forage in that pasture!"

It didn't matter. It never phased the crabgrass. Plenty of it last year and this year also

 

[Caustic Burno]

what type of crabgrass grows as a companion to your bahia grass?

Red River

 

[Caustic Burno]

Red River

Mixed Bahia and crab grass.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Took this picture this afternoon after the hurricane checking fences.
I have grass.

 

[DCortes]

Hey @BFE, I think your original post here pre-dated me joining but not by much. I haven't looked through this thread carefully to see if you've done this yet, but the answer to this question is yes. As a follow up to your question, "Does it work?", the answer is yes. "Does it persist/reseed?" Yes, for many years. I'll qualify my answer by saying it depends on how "decent" of a stand of tall fescue you have. If your existing stand is as thick as a well cared for golf course, don't expect to be able to graze a cow to the acre on the establishing crabgrass though. . I'm talking a locality not too different from where you are, Southeast Ohio. The producer stopped trying to maintain the crabgrass years ago, but last I looked (pre-pandemic actually) the crabgrass still returned to a degree without any encouragement. Not necessarily enough to make a difference, but it was there. With some care and maintenance, I think it would be at least 'productive' at a minimum.

Hi @Mark Reynolds. I just planted a novel endophyte (tall fescue/ryegras) orchard grass mix for an irrigated grazing pasture in Southern NM (hot dry summer). I was planning to overcast forage crabgrass to help in the summer. Do you think that has a chance of working?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Perennial Forage Species for Irrigated Pastures and Hay in New Mexico | New Mexico State University - BE BOLD. Shape the Future.

Most of the perennial forage crop species listed in this publication have demonstrated adaptation and are prominently used in irrigated pastures and hay fields in New Mexico. A few are included that have not yet been widely used but show promise.

pubs.nmsu.edu

The climate in the Southwest is quite different from that in Ohio and South Carolina. It is quite a bit drier. Tall fescue doesn't do well in the south half of South Carolina. I found the article above from New Mexico extension that discusses tall fescue (appears to be KY-31 and not a novel endophyte) which says it does well in the north half of NM, especially with irrigation. Based on what is said there, I get the impression that the tall fescue will do ok in southern NM. The extension article also discusses orchard grass and perennial ryegrass in New Mexico. Depending on your location within NM, I think you mix will do OK to well.

As for the crabgrass varieties/species, I found a good bit about Red River. I think it is a good choice to overseed your cool season mix. HOWEVER, I would not overseed your cool season mix the first year and the second year would depend on the performance of the cool season grass up to that point. The cool season grass needs to get itself well established without competition. I'm particularly concerned about the orchard grass from this aspect. Also, the ryegrass is short lived (for a perennial) and I would want to maximize the production from the ryegrass before it plays out. I think that overseeding with the crabgrass would introduce some competition for moisture (minimal though) with the ryegrass which might hasten the ryegrass playing out by a year or 2. I cannot find as much specific information on the mojo crabgrass as the red river, but it appears to be a good producer and I would expect good yields from it.

I would check with NM extension further for more information.

 

[DCortes]

Perennial Forage Species for Irrigated Pastures and Hay in New Mexico | New Mexico State University - BE BOLD. Shape the Future.

Most of the perennial forage crop species listed in this publication have demonstrated adaptation and are prominently used in irrigated pastures and hay fields in New Mexico. A few are included that have not yet been widely used but show promise.

pubs.nmsu.edu

The climate in the Southwest is quite different from that in Ohio and South Carolina. It is quite a bit drier. Tall fescue doesn't do well in the south half of South Carolina. I found the article above from New Mexico extension that discusses tall fescue (appears to be KY-31 and not a novel endophyte) which says it does well in the north half of NM, especially with irrigation. Based on what is said there, I get the impression that the tall fescue will do ok in southern NM. The extension article also discusses orchard grass and perennial ryegrass in New Mexico. Depending on your location within NM, I think you mix will do OK to well.

As for the crabgrass varieties/species, I found a good bit about Red River. I think it is a good choice to overseed your cool season mix. HOWEVER, I would not overseed your cool season mix the first year and the second year would depend on the performance of the cool season grass up to that point. The cool season grass needs to get itself well established without competition. I'm particularly concerned about the orchard grass from this aspect. Also, the ryegrass is short lived (for a perennial) and I would want to maximize the production from the ryegrass before it plays out. I think that overseeding with the crabgrass would introduce some competition for moisture (minimal though) with the ryegrass which might hasten the ryegrass playing out by a year or 2. I cannot find as much specific information on the mojo crabgrass as the red river, but it appears to be a good producer and I would expect good yields from it.

I would check with NM extension further for more information.

Thank you for the feedback! much appreciated.

 

[Cowman42]

In my experience when mixing cool and warm season grasses I was underwhelmed. When the warm season grass grows in summer it's great. When it dies out in the fall/winter it leaves bare soil. Next spring I have a lot more weeds growing from those bare spots.

If you could rotate cold season pasture and time it with rotating on to a dedicated warm season pasture with a planted cool season cover crop through the winter I think it could work.

Same. Warm season grasses either seem to be out of cinq with my pastures on the whole or the annuals like crabgrass only work on bare soil. Even discing a pasture in late spring when the slump comes on and spreading crabgrass and Teff in was very underwhelming......By the time the summer annuals were long enough to graze, the cool season grasses started growing and got knocked back pretty hard from premature grazing......I have considered running a couple dedicated warm season pastures but the summer weather has been either too wet or too dry for the last 3-4 years.