red angus vs black angus

[ANAZAZI]

The natural selection generally favour black skin in places with strong ultra violet radiation; in both humans and cattle. In cattle the heat stress also favours white hair on the black hide, simply because it is cooler. Humans have very little hair, which makes selection pressure much lesser.
Oh, and colour is not the only factor. Not by far. :2cents:

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Oh, and colour is not the only factor. Not by far. :2cents:

True, and I think that is what Massey was noting. I can't think of the reference off hand, but read somewhere breed characteristics for skin thickness, dewlaps/ear length, length/thickness of the coat, and even dullness of the hair.

The dull red color of shorthorns is about equivalent to black due to absorption of the sun's energy.

All else being the same, I do think the color is still important.

 

[Sean M]

Black folk evolved in the hottest climate on earth. Whites evolved in the coldest. Jus think about the relationship between skin color and countries of origin. The darker the skin/hide, the warmer the climate.
Like dun said, I've ran multiple colored cattle and nvr noticed any difference as far as hide color. The difference I see is coat length. My black brangus perform much better in the summer than the thick haired red shorthorns.

Completely off topic but the reason for darker and lighter skin in humans is more to do with vitamin D. With the weaker sun in northern latidudes we need more vitamin D which is increased by having lower levels of melanin, nearer the equator higher melanin protects against cancers.
On topic there have been plenty of studies that show lighter haired animals will perform better in hotter conditions but because black Angus are known as better feedlot performers there will always be a preference for them.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Thats a new one on me didn't no black angus were any better performers in the feedlot, than say a good crossbred calf.

 

[Sean M]

Thats a new one on me didn't no black angus were any better performers in the feedlot, than say a good crossbred calf.

Sure but everything I've read has said that angus are consistently at or near the top of feedlot trials for purebred animals. They're not my favourite breed but you can't argue that they've done a good job breeding and marketing to get were they are.

 

[Sean M]

I found a study on it. It shows that lighter coloured animals perform better during heat stress but it's important to look at the final results table:

Table 1. Carcass characteristics of Angus, Hereford and Murray Grey steers after 165-183 days on feed.
Traits Angus Hereford Murray Grey P value
Initial wt (kg) 436 ± 4.0a 427 ± 3.3a 386 ± 20.3b P<0.01
Final wt (kg) 599 ± 7.44 592 ± 8.32 577 ± 20.3 ns
HCW (kg) 359.7± 5.3 362.9± 3.6 338 ± 16.8 ns
Dressing (%) 60 ± 0.7a 62 ±1 a 58 ± 1.4b P<0.01
EMA (cm²) 79.6 ± 1 79.8 ± 0.8 78.1 ± 2.7 ns
P8 fat (mm) 19.7 ± 0.7a 19.5 ± 0.6a 14.4 ± 1.1b P<0.01
Marbling 1.6 ± 0.09 1.56 ±0.07 1.52 ±0.14 ns
Values in rows followed by different letters are significantly different

(Apologies about the formatting)

http://web.mac.com/marykat1/Clubhouse/colourcool_files/heat.pdf

Heat index explanation: http://www.coolcows.com.au/go-on-alert/thi.htm

 

[Littlesalesman]

I think that most people Breed black angus or have black angus is simply because they sell higher at the sale barn. In western Kansas anyway there are not alot of red angus cattle buyers So red angus dont sell as high here. :tiphat:

 

[novatech]

Sure but everything I've read has said that angus are consistently at or near the top of feedlot trials for purebred animals.

You can probably read that about any breed depending on who put on the study. The trait is animal specific not breed specific. There may be 1 exception to that rule. In the middle of July putting a little ear into the feed lot study in the North Texas feed lots would make any breed better.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Some Red Angus breeders chase the latest fads but many (most) stick pretty much with the strengths the breed has had all along. Red Angus EPDs are set up to attempt to define functional traits.

From my perspective I see the Red Angus people just doing a better job of improving genetics as a whole. The Black Angus has become such a big fad that a lot of people seem to raise them just for the sake of being able to say they are in the Angus business. Looking at their cattle they would not even make for an acceptable commercial herd.
I think that percentage wise there are just a lot more high quality Red Angus than Black.

Yep.
The average red beats the average CBA.

 

[Sean M]

Sure but everything I've read has said that angus are consistently at or near the top of feedlot trials for purebred animals.

You can probably read that about any breed depending on who put on the study. The trait is animal specific not breed specific. There may be 1 exception to that rule. In the middle of July putting a little ear into the feed lot study in the North Texas feed lots would make any breed better.

Sure they would but the carcass wouldn't grade as high. Maybe it is just a perception that Angus perform better Novatech but they seem to bring more at saleyards. I'd personally rather do euro x british but if the saleyards are going to pay more for Angus crosses then I'm not going to argue with that. As they say about the stockmarket the market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Little bit of difference in performance and carcass grade.Wonder what you think most angus crosses are Sean M?

 

[novatech]

As they say about the stockmarket the market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

And I can't arque with that.
I think a lot has to do with "Monkey see, Monkey do". Seems to hold for cattle , the stock market, what car your neighbor drives, and just about every thing else. I have never followed the masses. Just don't like being a monkey. :lol:

 

[Sean M]

As they say about the stockmarket the market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

And I can't arque with that.
I think a lot has to do with "Monkey see, Monkey do". Seems to hold for cattle , the stock market, what car your neighbor drives, and just about every thing else. I have never followed the masses. Just don't like being a monkey. :lol:

Red Bull Breeder I guess most crosses would be Brangus, but we don't need any Bos Indicus were we are.

Novatech I agree that there is a real herd mentality but if that's what the market wants they can have it. My father has been telling me that he wants to get an Angus bull to put over some of the Murray Greys and I've been telling him he's mad and he should get a Euro bull. Someone down the road has Simmentals and he was interested in those but after going to the saleyards it's just obvious that Angus get higher prices, so I think he should get an Angus bull if he wants to cross some of them. The only problem is he would have trouble keeping 4 bulls apart so he would have to get rid of one of the MG bulls and they all have something going for them so it would be a hard choice.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Novatech I agree that there is a real herd mentality but if that's what the market wants they can have it. My father has been telling me that he wants to get an Angus bull to put over some of the Murray Greys and I've been telling him he's mad and he should get a Euro bull. Someone down the road has Simmentals and he was interested in those but after going to the saleyards it's just obvious that Angus get higher prices, so I think he should get an Angus bull if he wants to cross some of them. The only problem is he would have trouble keeping 4 bulls apart so he would have to get rid of one of the MG bulls and they all have something going for them so it would be a hard choice.

There would be very little heterosis in angus on murray grey.

 

[Stocker Steve]

[Someone down the road has Simmentals and he was interested in those but after going to the saleyards it's just obvious that Angus get higher prices, so I think he should get an Angus bull if he wants to cross some of them.

Most of the Simmetals here are solid black and look a lot like Angus, often with a bit longer hair or bigger ears. Perhaps some are not pure bred...

Is it that obvious in the ring that the black Simmental crosses have no Angus blood (and are worth less) ?

 

[Sean M]

Novatech I agree that there is a real herd mentality but if that's what the market wants they can have it. My father has been telling me that he wants to get an Angus bull to put over some of the Murray Greys and I've been telling him he's mad and he should get a Euro bull. Someone down the road has Simmentals and he was interested in those but after going to the saleyards it's just obvious that Angus get higher prices, so I think he should get an Angus bull if he wants to cross some of them. The only problem is he would have trouble keeping 4 bulls apart so he would have to get rid of one of the MG bulls and they all have something going for them so it would be a hard choice.

There would be very little heterosis in angus on murray grey.

That's why I told him to get a Euro bull. MGs are Angus x Shorthorn originally but that was a long time ago so there would be a fair bit of genetic difference, but I agree that a Euro cross would be better.

SS I don't think I've seen any Sim go through the saleyards here, I'm sure they do ok but I guess your question is do the have any Fresian in them? :cowboy:

 

[novatech]

Novatech I agree that there is a real herd mentality but if that's what the market wants they can have it. My father has been telling me that he wants to get an Angus bull to put over some of the Murray Greys and I've been telling him he's mad and he should get a Euro bull. Someone down the road has Simmentals and he was interested in those but after going to the saleyards it's just obvious that Angus get higher prices, so I think he should get an Angus bull if he wants to cross some of them. The only problem is he would have trouble keeping 4 bulls apart so he would have to get rid of one of the MG bulls and they all have something going for them so it would be a hard choice.

There would be very little heterosis in angus on murray grey.

That's why I told him to get a Euro bull. MGs are Angus x Shorthorn originally but that was a long time ago so there would be a fair bit of genetic difference, but I agree that a Euro cross would be better.

SS I don't think I've seen any Sim go through the saleyards here, I'm sure they do ok but I guess your question is do the have any Fresian in them? :cowboy:

The buyers are the herd mentality. It is only good business to produce what the buyers want.
I am speaking of the buyers and the people that buy Angus cattle as if it were a status symbol. They actually think that just because it is Angus it will produce a fantastic steak. If that were true the the top notch Angus breeders would not be working their tails off to produce better genetics. Secondly CAB would not have to accept so many cross bred cattle into their program.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that before Angus became so popular, back in the early 60's I think, I was much more assured of have a high quality steak than I am today. Back then my family raised them and I don't think one cow weighed over 800 lbs.

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

I agree with you novatech, I too raised Angus in the 50-60s and I think the beef was better back then.

 

[angusdave63]

the beef was better back then because the butcher let it hang longer than 30 minutes like the large packers of this day and age. we starter out with herefords then went black for about 25 years now i am working both sides of the fence. hereford, black angus, and a real nice red poll bull running on the cows we will see how it all works out in dew time

 

[James T]

The buyers are the herd mentality. It is only good business to produce what the buyers want.
I am speaking of the buyers and the people that buy Angus cattle as if it were a status symbol. They actually think that just because it is Angus it will produce a fantastic steak. If that were true the the top notch Angus breeders would not be working their tails off to produce better genetics. Secondly CAB would not have to accept so many cross bred cattle into their program.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that before Angus became so popular, back in the early 60's I think, I was much more assured of have a high quality steak than I am today. Back then my family raised them and I don't think one cow weighed over 800 lbs.

There may be some buyers of Angus that are in it for status but I think they the minority by far. It would be my guess that the largest populations of Angus are in the colder climates and so it seems that Angus would be the logical choice for those folks plus the fact that the beef is pretty decent. CAB advertising didn't hurt either! Good point about the size now versus back then! There is a caveat to large cow size in a drought. I read recently that a guy named Pete Scarmardo (who has been buying and selling cattle for the last 40 years) said "One thing we have learned in this drought is that we've got our cows too big, whereby they take too much feed. Producers need to cut back to 1,000 to 1,100 pound cows from 1,300 - 1,400 pounds. All the breeds have got too big."