Red Angus Sire Question?

[Walker]

We are considering buying a few older red Gelbvieh cows from a breeder that we deal with. These are cows with a few more calves left (we hope ) in them. He is going to A.I. them with any semen we want to use(of coarse we purchase)after they calve in the spring. My question is what are some of the Red Angus sires that we Should research that would be considered to have maternal traits with moderate size offspring.

 

[CowpokeJ]

Try some of these http://www.brylor.com/bss/index.html

 

[3waycross]

We are considering buying a few older red Gelbvieh cows from a breeder that we deal with. These are cows with a few more calves left (we hope ) in them. He is going to A.I. them with any semen we want to use(of coarse we purchase)after they calve in the spring. My question is what are some of the Red Angus sires that we Should research that would be considered to have maternal traits with moderate size offspring.

Are these registered Gelbvieh or are you gonna treat them as commercial. If they are registered and you are gonna raise Balancers they can be registered with the Gelbvieh Assn as such.

If you just want terminal go with anything from Cherokee Canyon but IMO I would not keep a daughter out of him or one of his sons if he[[ froze over they have the worst calving ease numbers in the breed. On the other hand they are growth monsters. It would also help if you had some EPD's on the cows to work with.

You won't regret buying the Gelbvieh mommas just need to have a solid plan on how you want to use them.

One of the EPD's you want to pay close attn to in the RA's is the ME or maternal efficiency number. I wouldn't use a bull to create replacement heifers with a ME over 5 at the most and preferably no higher than 3. The lower the better. The low numbers are basically the easy keepers.

You probably also wanna look hard at the carcass numbers I'm guessing that if they are Red Gelbvieh's their not gonna be marbling champions.

Bottom line is you have a lot of variables that are not answered here, not yet anyway.

 

[dun]

We are considering buying a few older red Gelbvieh cows from a breeder that we deal with. These are cows with a few more calves left (we hope ) in them. He is going to A.I. them with any semen we want to use(of coarse we purchase)after they calve in the spring. My question is what are some of the Red Angus sires that we Should research that would be considered to have maternal traits with moderate size offspring.

Are these registered Gelbvieh or are you gonna treat them as commercial. If they are registered and you are gonna raise Balancers they can be registered with the Gelbvieh Assn as such.

If you just want terminal go with anything from Cherokee Canyon but IMO I would not keep a daughter out of him or one of his sons if he[[ froze over they have the worst calving ease numbers in the breed. On the other hand they are growth monsters. It would also help if you had some EPD's on the cows to work with.

You won't regret buying the Gelbvieh mommas just need to have a solid plan on how you want to use them.

One of the EPD's you want to pay close attn to in the RA's is the ME or maternal efficiency number. I wouldn't use a bull to create replacement heifers with a ME over 5 at the most and preferably no higher than 3. The lower the better. The low numbers are basically the easy keepers.

You probably also wanna look hard at the carcass numbers I'm guessing that if they are Red Gelbvieh's their not gonna be marbling champions.

Bottom line is you have a lot of variables that are not answered here, not yet anyway.

ME is maintenance energy Page 5 of the link explains it: http://redangus.org/node/115/Genetics/R ... o_EPDs.pdf

 

[3waycross]

Well that's what you get when you post when you're tired. Thanks for correcting me Dun, it is in fact MAINTENANCE not MATERNAL efficiency. However at the end of the day it means the same thing. If it takes more feed to keep your COWS in breeding and or lactating condition then they are not going to be as efficient.

As always a balanced approach to EPD's is the smart way to go. For the record the statement I made in my earlier post RE, Cherokee Canyon is not so much about the ease with which his calves are born (CE) but the really low calving ease on his daughters and grandaughters(CED) my best info is that this is not a correlation to birthweight but a pelvic issue.

If I was looking for a maternal bull I would look for GOOD CE numbers and
GREAT CED numbers along with MILK and TM being moderate not extreme either way.

 

[KNERSIE]

Shouldn't Gelbvieh cows have more than enough milk anyway so that close attention needn't be paid so much to the maternal strength of the red angus?

There is such a thing as too much milk, especially if your forage isn't outstanding 12 months a year.

 

[3waycross]

This would be the bull if you are not real concerned with carcass traits. He is a cow maker for sure.

Yes Knersie I know his milk could be higher but the EPD's that count for me for a maternal bull are all there especially HPG, ME and Stayability. His CEM is also very good.

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redang ... o=29AR0129

 

[3waycross]

Shouldn't Gelbvieh cows have more than enough milk anyway so that close attention needn't be paid so much to the maternal strength of the red angus?

There is such a thing as too much milk, especially if your forage isn't outstanding 12 months a year.

???? wouldn't high milk numbers be a detriment if you don't have good forage. I thought they had to eat to make milk?

Not being a smart a$$ just confused.

 

[KNERSIE]

Shouldn't Gelbvieh cows have more than enough milk anyway so that close attention needn't be paid so much to the maternal strength of the red angus?

There is such a thing as too much milk, especially if your forage isn't outstanding 12 months a year.

???? wouldn't high milk numbers be a detriment if you don't have good forage. I thought they had to eat to make milk?

Not being a smart a$$ just confused.

I thought that is exactly what I have said? Please re-read my comment.

 

[3waycross]

Shouldn't Gelbvieh cows have more than enough milk anyway so that close attention needn't be paid so much to the maternal strength of the red angus?

There is such a thing as too much milk, especially if your forage isn't outstanding 12 months a year.

???? wouldn't high milk numbers be a detriment if you don't have good forage. I thought they had to eat to make milk?

Not being a smart a$$ just confused.

I thought that is exactly what I have said? Please re-read my comment.

Yep that's just exactly what you said. I misread it.

However I said originally to look for moderation in the MILK EPD. And not all Gelbvieh cows are heavy milkers. Look at some GV epd's you might be surprised that a lot of them have lower than expected numbers for milk.

 

[KNERSIE]

And not all Gelbvieh cows are heavy milkers. Look at some GV epd's you might be surprised that a lot of them have lower than expected numbers for milk.

My experience with gelbviehs is that they milk very similar to a simmental and that is already too much for most commercial herds in my area.

The gelbvieh EPDs compare cattle within the breed to each other, and won't tell me much how they would compare with the red angus's milking ability for instance. I am not familiar enough with the breed in the USA to really know what is high or low for the breed.

 

[Sage]

Look at Cheyenne RAAA786422, never had a bad calf yet from him.
Judge RAAA904822, will have his calves hitting the ground any day.

More information on your desired calf would help, I'm sure there are several good sires availabe.

 

[W.T]

If you want replacement heifers here is a outstanding bull RA#1005282 1961 X 6807
http://www.hoffmanaibreeders.com/angusbulls/redrock.html

 

[KNERSIE]

If you want replacement heifers here is a outstanding bull RA#1005282 1961 X 6807
http://www.hoffmanaibreeders.com/angusbulls/redrock.html

I would like to see him directly from the front with his head down grazing.

 

[W.T]

Here is a front view but with his head up, it is all i have.

 

[Jovid]

If you want replacement heifers here is a outstanding bull RA#1005282 1961 X 6807
http://www.hoffmanaibreeders.com/angusbulls/redrock.html

I would like to see him directly from the front with his head down grazing.

Thinking the same thing KNERSIE and the second pic answered the question.

 

[3waycross]

Wanna share with the rest of us.

 

[Jovid]

Wanna share with the rest of us.

Just wondering how thick he was across his top.

 

[W.T]

Her is a a pic of a typical heifer out of this bull she is what she is. 12 months 750lbs in tough country.

 

[dun]

Her is a a pic of a typical heifer out of this bull she is what she is. 12 months 750lbs in tough country.

Which bull is "this bull"?