Red Angus Genetics Question

[2/B or not 2/B]

My bull hunt continues...

Today I visited a beautiful old ranch in the hills. I noticed that one of the young bulls I liked has a white patch on his belly. I was told it's because his grandsire is Glacier Marias and his progeny often have a little white in them. Are any of you familiar with this? Also, what are the RAAA guidelines about hide color? I looked but didn't see what I was looking for. This particular bull isn't registered yet but has two registered parents and is supposed to be eligible. I've looked into both sides of his pedigree.

Thanks!

 

[dun]

Red on thee underside as long as it isn;t forward of the navel is allowed.
Red Angus have 2 basic groupings, 1A and 1B. 1A are 100% angus, red or black. 1B are bred up and contain other breeds. There are also categorys that deal with breeding up and percentages or disqualifying characteristics, like excessivewhite or black color.
redangus.org has all of the information on the breed that you could ever hope for.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

Thanks, the white is not forward of the navel but it's a very visible patch. There also appears to be some white in the switch of the tail. Both parents are registered as 1A.

 

[dun]

Thanks, the white is not forward of the navel but it's a very visible patch. There also appears to be some white in the switch of the tail. Both parents are registered as 1A.

White switch, black switch, red switch, it doesn;t matter. We have one 1A cow that has her entire udder white, her daughter has one little spot of white on her udder. But that younger cows calves have a lot of white on their bellys all behind the navel. Those spotting/marking genes alwasy seem to be a crapshoot.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

As a follow up, would anyone be willing to share some of their favorite red angus bulls? I'm focusing on maternal traits right now, so I can get healthy calves on the ground and also grow some replacement heifers, so I'd like to know about any of those bulls. In particular, I like the Hobo line. But I'm interested in knowing about any others that are known for calving ease without completely sacrificing growth. It would help me as I go back through pedigrees.

 

[dun]

I personally like Basin Hobo 79E but had problems with Hobo 1961, also Chateau.

 

[JMichal]

Red Angus are nice cattle. If you are trying to build a herd, and want to keep the heifers, look at the maternal traits. Sounds like you are. You really need to look at the Bulls mama,in person if possible, as that is where the maternal traits come from. Check out her udders, body score, overall conformation compared to age, and temperment. In your part of the country you may not want to go high on milk. I would keep it at breed average if at all possible.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

The one I'm considering right now is a Cherokee Canyon 4912 grandson, which is probably what messed up his CEM score. It's 1. CED, BW, Stay, HPG are all good, but ME is 6.5, higher than I was looking for. Milk is 21, a bit above average. Finding the right bull has been fun but difficult.

 

[JMichal]

Allways is fun. Make sure you look at phenotype also. Pictures suck. Try and find someone who knows the bull. Call the owner, or breeder. They are usually helpful and honest. It is in their best interest to match you up with the right bull.

 

[dun]

Just one persons opinion, Cherokee Canyon will come back to bite the breed in the long run

 

[Sage]

I actually agree with Dun, be careful of Cherokee Canyon for daughters. We have had good luck with Cheyenne daughters if he is bred to big pelvice cows. Just had a cheyenne heifer give birth to an 85lb bull calf on 2/1/08 with no assistance. Rambler is a great maternal line, we have some great Hobo and Chateau cows also. Lakota cattle are very strong maternally but seem to requier a bit more maint, at least ours seem to be a higher producing higher maintance line. I would look at the Monu & Rambo sires and possibly anything that goes back to the Mattie cow line. I'm sure you can find good and bad in all of them but this will get you off to a good start.

 

[dun]

We've used CC alot, but he is a strictly terminal bull for us. Neighbor that runs about 150 Red Angus cows used him and kept a few daughters. The ones that lived through the calving, which is most of them, all went down the road as kill cows when their calves were weaned.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

That's all very helpful information and now I'm getting depressed about my options :| I started out with a list of 20 bulls and had to cut some b/c I simply can't afford them. From there, I weeded out a large percentage just based on EPD's. Weeded a couple more out after seeing them and their dams in person. The ranch I visited today used Cherokee Canyon extensively about 5 years back and he's the paternal grandsire of all 5 bulls I viewed there. Does the fact that he's a grandsire and not a direct sire cut his influence somewhat? Another prospect I have was sired by Hobo 1961 with maternal grandsire Chateau 744. Do any of you have feedback on daughters of these lines?

 

[dun]

We nad caalving problems with 1961 but his daughters calved easily and were real power cows. Chateau daughters alwasy sell high at registered sales. I'ld have to check and see if we have any of his grandaughters, seems that lately the majority of the bulls we use are chateau sons. What kind of prices are you looking for in a bull?

 

[Sage]

I would definatly consider the Hobo/Chateau bulls. As far as Cherokee Canyon influence there are some good and some bad. What I have noticed in our herd is the pelvis of Cherokee Canyon influenced females (Cheyenne calves) tend to be a little tall and narrow even though they measure out in sq cm for size. This has not proved to be a problem for us but I knew about it ahead of time and have only used him on cows that measured close to square or a bit wide. Cherokee canyon was the #1 used bull, now Major league (a CC son) is #1 so there are definatly some good traits people are after in this line.

Our Hobo cows are one of our most productive (easy keeping with good weaning wts, very few problems) cow families. Buffalo Creek Hobo 1961 and CKRA Hobo 018.
Almost half of our bull calves for sale have Chateau on the maternal side. CKRA Chateau 928, CKRA Chateau 108 and Glacier Chateau 744.

 

[dun]

We use the snot out of a BJR RAMBLER 5162 sone out of GLACIER RB-LS. Calves are a little heavier then most heifer bulls but they're shapped like a weanie, long and thin. They grow into some great steers and excellent easy calving cows with better udders then their dams. Only problem is he broke a leg as a 2 year old so there isn;t any more semen available.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

The Hobo 1961/Chateau 744 bull is $2,500 and originally I set my upper price limit to $2,000. I'm really not trying to be cheap, just realistic about what I can afford to spend this year. The Cherokee Canyon Grandson on my list is also a Hobo 1961 grandson on the maternal side and I'm wondering if maybe that brings some balance to him? The other lines playing into his pedigree on both sides are Roy's Better Heavy and JMR Heaven from LCC Heaven or Bust. His price is $1,800. Do you think the Hobo influence can balance the CC, or is it wishful thinking on my part?

 

[3waycross]

I have been shopping Red Angus bulls for a while and @ 7000' PAP is definately a consideration. Does anybody here know anything about an old time (maybe 10 yrs ago) ABS bull called Cowboy Up. The fella I'm looking at bulls with says he found him to be real good for calving ease(his bull calves avg around66lbs) and real good PAP scores avg arounf 40. The only problen is I can't find anything to back up his pedigree or EPD's fella says he doesn't register any of his Red Angus so when he bought out ABS on the semen he didn't buy the Certificates. The other wierd thing is he can't even tell me the bulls registration number. The bulls calves all wean aroung 635 to 640 and yrling weight looks to be around 950 but then he is not a heavy feeder for sure. Any help on this bull would be appreciated. One other thing I looked at 2 two yr old bulls from hin the other day at a friends ranch, he runs her cattle at 9000ft and says the little bulls were hard workers but neither on weighed over 1600lbs and that's pushing it

 

[3waycross]

Another Red Angus question. Does anybody have any high altitude experience with the Forster Gold or LMB Golden Boy cattle at high altitude. I looked at some bulls from this line and really like them but they are not PAP tested because he usually sells at 5000ft or less. The same fella has a son of BJR Rambler 5162 that is the sire of most of his cowherd and has really made some good cows for him. The bull I liked is a composite of both these lines.

 

[W.T]

The Hobo lines have worked very good for us. Deep bodied, good udders, and cows that can have calves as heifers without any assistence. They have been hands off cattle here. Check out hoffmansaibreeders RA 1005282.