REA

[greenwillowherefords]

How big is big enough when it comes to Ribeye Area? I have heard that there is a push in some circles to moderate the REA because serving portion sizes were getting too large. Has anyone else heard this? I know that the powers that be among Hereford folks are still pushing for more ribeye size, but even among Herefords, I have read of 17 inches or more in yearling bulls, one of them being Triple L C&L Custom 100K, sired by Bar JZ Tradition 434V. His WW 745, YW 1213, REA/CWT 1.4. I can certainly see that on a cow herd with small ribeyes, you could put a bull with excessive ribeye to even out the calves somewhere in the middle. Ollie, last I checked, you were the only other registered user out there, what do you think? Cert, Txag, Frankie, and all the others will be along after a while!

 

[ollie]

GREENWILLOW,
I don't think that there is a Hereford bull producing calves with a ribeye that is too large. There are some bulls I am sure that produce calves with ribeyes too large for some cows. Each bull is a tool to fix or improve and should be looked at as such.

 

[Frankie]

How big is big enough when it comes to Ribeye Area? I have heard that there is a push in some circles to moderate the REA because serving portion sizes were getting too large. Has anyone else heard this? I know that the powers that be among Hereford folks are still pushing for more ribeye size, but even among Herefords, I have read of 17 inches or more in yearling bulls, one of them being Triple L C&L Custom 100K, sired by Bar JZ Tradition 434V. His WW 745, YW 1213, REA/CWT 1.4. I can certainly see that on a cow herd with small ribeyes, you could put a bull with excessive ribeye to even out the calves somewhere in the middle. Ollie, last I checked, you were the only other registered user out there, what do you think? Cert, Txag, Frankie, and all the others will be along after a while!

If I'm remembering correctly, the packers want a ribeye ABOUT 12 inches. A 17 inch ribeye will have to be cut thinner to get an 8 oz serving, then it might not cook correctly. Extremes in ribeye are no different than extremes in any other trait; you don't want them. IMO, using a bull with a large ribeye on cows with small ribeyes won't get you a calf with a medium ribeye. The calf will inherit genes from both parents, but will express only one of them. Thus, some of the calves from this breeding will have larger ribeyes (like the sire) and some will have small ribeyes (like the dam). If you're working to increase ribeye size in your herd, keeping heifers sired by a bull with a large ribeye will improve your chances of getting calves with larger ribeyes. But it will take a generation. or two, or three.

 

[ollie]

[ IMO, using a bull with a large ribeye on cows with small ribeyes won't get you a calf with a medium ribeye. ]quote : Frankie

Frankie , how would you improve the ribeye size on your cattle if they were too small?

 

[Frankie]

[ IMO, using a bull with a large ribeye on cows with small ribeyes won't get you a calf with a medium ribeye. ]quote : Frankie

Frankie , how would you improve the ribeye size on your cattle if they were too small?

I'm talking about commercial cattle here. If you keep heifers sired by a bull with a larger REA EPD (as compared to a bull with a smaller REA EPD), some of the heifers will have larger ribeyes than their dams (assuming she has a small ribeye). If you wanted to ultasound the heifers to pick out the ones with larger ribeyes, that would help, too. Breed those heifers to bulls with larger REA EPDs, keep heifers, and somewhere down the line you will have a cow herd with large ribeyes. I don't know what the heritability estimate is on ribeye, but in general, carcass traits are moderate to highly heritable.

Disclaimer: Single trait selection is generally not a good idea. Use bulls with good, well balanced EPDs, with emphasis on any individual trait you're looking to improve.

 

[ollie]

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/stand ... ef-car.pdf
Here is a usda website to help everyone determine the proper rea in relation to the size carcass weight the animals you produce should have.
Determine what size your cattle should finish at and use 62% of live weight to find carcass weight. 12 inch rea could get you into discounts(or out of premiums) if the carcass weights are average and they get very fat. I thought the packers didn't dock till somewhere over 16 sq.in.

 

[Frankie]

Ollie said:

"12 inch rea could get you into discounts(or out of premiums) if the carcass weights are average and they get very fat."

So if the carcass is above average or they don't get "very" fat, a 12 inch REA won't get you discounts?

"I thought the packers didn't dock till somewhere over 16 sq.in."

Packers have a market for everything they buy. If your cattle don't fit a market, they'll dock you. Laura's Lean is looking for a larger ribeye than CAB. CHB will accept a higher YG than CAB. It can be a learning experience for a producer to feed some cattle, even if it's just a few head through your state sponsored feed out program.

 

[TheBullLady]

When we had steers at the Ranch to Rail program, they discounted for ribeyes that were smaller than 12 inches or larger than 13.5

 

[greenwillowherefords]

When we had steers at the Ranch to Rail program, they discounted for ribeyes that were smaller than 12 inches or larger than 13.5

That seems like a narrow window!

 

[Tod Dague]

How big is big enough when it comes to Ribeye Area? I have heard that there is a push in some circles to moderate the REA because serving portion sizes were getting too large. Has anyone else heard this? I know that the powers that be among Hereford folks are still pushing for more ribeye size, but even among Herefords, I have read of 17 inches or more in yearling bulls, one of them being Triple L C&L Custom 100K, sired by Bar JZ Tradition 434V. His WW 745, YW 1213, REA/CWT 1.4. I can certainly see that on a cow herd with small ribeyes, you could put a bull with excessive ribeye to even out the calves somewhere in the middle. Ollie, last I checked, you were the only other registered user out there, what do you think? Cert, Txag, Frankie, and all the others will be along after a while!

If I'm remembering correctly, the packers want a ribeye ABOUT 12 inches. A 17 inch ribeye will have to be cut thinner to get an 8 oz serving, then it might not cook correctly. Extremes in ribeye are no different than extremes in any other trait; you don't want them. IMO, using a bull with a large ribeye on cows with small ribeyes won't get you a calf with a medium ribeye. The calf will inherit genes from both parents, but will express only one of them. Thus, some of the calves from this breeding will have larger ribeyes (like the sire) and some will have small ribeyes (like the dam). If you're working to increase ribeye size in your herd, keeping heifers sired by a bull with a large ribeye will improve your chances of getting calves with larger ribeyes. But it will take a generation. or two, or three.

I disagree. Some calves will have the smaller REA some will have the larger REA but most will be intermediate of the two. I very well doubt that 50% will have the small REA and 50% will have the large REA. I have yet to have a large REA bull not improve the REA of every calf of my small REA cows.

Tod

 

[Frankie]

I'm not going to bicker about this, but except for an occasional mutation, genes don't change. I seriously doubt the size of the ribeye of a beef animal is governed by one single gene, rather a series of genes, plus environment and management. If I took twin, cloned 8-month old bull calves and put one on feed test and one on my native grass pasture, I'd fully expect the one on feed to outweigh the other as yearling, plus have a bigger ribeye and more backfat (management). I didn't say the inheritance would be 50-50%, since there's no way (in commercial cows) to tell what the cow's genetic make up is for ribeye. As one breeds their cows to a bull with "good" genes for ribeye area, the daughters will inherit some of those "good" genes. If you continually breed to bulls with superior EPDs for ribeye, eventually you'd wind up with a cowherd with "good" genes for ribeye. But I don't think one generation can do it.

 

[ollie]

. If I took twin, cloned 8-month old bull calves and put one on feed test and one on my native grass pasture, I'd fully expect the one on feed to outweigh the other as yearling, plus have a bigger ribeye and more backfat (management.

Of course you would and so would anyone else with any brain.
I think you don't even understand the discussion or you wouldn't respond with this line of thought.

 

[ollie]

Ollie said:

"12 inch rea could get you into discounts(or out of premiums) if the carcass weights are average and they get very fat."

So if the carcass is above average or they don't get "very" fat, a 12 inch REA won't get you discounts?

"I thought the packers didn't dock till somewhere over 16 sq.in."

Packers have a market for everything they buy. If your cattle don't fit a market, they'll dock you. Laura's Lean is looking for a larger ribeye than CAB. CHB will accept a higher YG than CAB. It can be a learning experience for a producer to feed some cattle, even if it's just a few head through your state sponsored feed out program.

Being a cattle feeder like I assume you are I will put words in your mouth and say you ment to say if the carcass weights are below average or they don't get "very" fat you would not get discounts. That is correct but a larger ribeye gives you more flexability .

 

[greenwillowherefords]

How big is big enough when it comes to Ribeye Area? I have heard that there is a push in some circles to moderate the REA because serving portion sizes were getting too large. Has anyone else heard this? I know that the powers that be among Hereford folks are still pushing for more ribeye size, but even among Herefords, I have read of 17 inches or more in yearling bulls, one of them being Triple L C&L Custom 100K, sired by Bar JZ Tradition 434V. His WW 745, YW 1213, REA/CWT 1.4. I can certainly see that on a cow herd with small ribeyes, you could put a bull with excessive ribeye to even out the calves somewhere in the middle. Ollie, last I checked, you were the only other registered user out there, what do you think? Cert, Txag, Frankie, and all the others will be along after a while!

If I'm remembering correctly, the packers want a ribeye ABOUT 12 inches. A 17 inch ribeye will have to be cut thinner to get an 8 oz serving, then it might not cook correctly. Extremes in ribeye are no different than extremes in any other trait; you don't want them. IMO, using a bull with a large ribeye on cows with small ribeyes won't get you a calf with a medium ribeye. The calf will inherit genes from both parents, but will express only one of them. Thus, some of the calves from this breeding will have larger ribeyes (like the sire) and some will have small ribeyes (like the dam). If you're working to increase ribeye size in your herd, keeping heifers sired by a bull with a large ribeye will improve your chances of getting calves with larger ribeyes. But it will take a generation. or two, or three.

I disagree. Some calves will have the smaller REA some will have the larger REA but most will be intermediate of the two. I very well doubt that 50% will have the small REA and 50% will have the large REA. I have yet to have a large REA bull not improve the REA of every calf of my small REA cows.

Tod

You said what I thought, but was afraid to say because Frankie knows much more than I do! (I mean that, no offense intended Frankie) Another question is what does it cost to have ultrasounds performed on your cattle, either at their place or yours?

 

[cattle_gal]

Speaking of genes. The below link isn't for REA, but for marbling, but it may give a better corrielation of what the chances are of a gene getting passed down to the offspring.


http://www.geneticsolutions.com.au/cont ... =GeneNOTE1