Raw Milk

[M.Magis]

Go back and read what Arkansas posted. Its the truth.

I certainly agree that it's the truth. It's showing the extremely low percentage (nearly negligible) of people getting sick from pasteurized milk, vs. a much higher percentage of people getting sick from raw milk. And let's face it, most people drinking raw milk are getting it from their own cow. Letting people bottle and sell raw milk, nearly unregulated, is a disaster in the making. Or at least seems like it would be to me.

 

[TexasBred]

Go back and read what Arkansas posted. Its the truth.

I certainly agree that it's the truth. It's showing the extremely low percentage (nearly negligible) of people getting sick from pasteurized milk, vs. a much higher percentage of people getting sick from raw milk. And let's face it, most people drinking raw milk are getting it from their own cow. Letting people bottle and sell raw milk, nearly unregulated, is a disaster in the making. Or at least seems like it would be to me.

It's NOT unregulated. Somewhere in a drawer or on a dark nasty wall in the barn or garage or somewhere is a piece of paper from the State authorizing them to sell raw milk. Somewhere in the deep recesses of some gov't agency are the rules that no one has seen in years. As long as he sends them a big $$$$ every year to renew that permit he's good to go.

As said I've drank tons of raw milk but I remember too my brother and me walking about a half mile to milk the old cow. He'd have a bucket with about an inch of water in it to wash her tits with. Would sit, milk and smoke all at the same time. No telling what went in that bucket. Then the walk back home, strain it thru a piece of cloth and put it in the frig which was probably closer to 50 degrees than freezing. Don't think that was even considered "sanitary" let alone sterile. But....don't remember any of us getting sick from it either. :lol2: :lol2:

 

[regolith]

I probably agree with 99% of what you post and I agree with most of what you posted above. I'm not educated enough in the food industry to pretend to solve all their problems, but I have a problem just opening up un pasteurized milk for sale willy nilly with the major consumers being children. Maybe I shouldn't feel this way, and parents should have the right to choose what's best for their kids. I feel that way in so many other areas, it should apply here as well. But I hate all the miss information.




More generally, the issue with safety is this, there is no sterile milk. It doesn't exist, it can't exist. The clean milk just has numbers below levels deemed to be pathogenic. Pasteurization does not make milk sterile. It just lowers the numbers further, by short term heating then quick cooling. It creates a product that will last on the shelf longer and is overall safer- even earlier in cases of severe contamination.

Those of you drinking whole milk, I imagine it was fresh correct? It didn't sit on the shelf for days and give bacteria time to replicate? Milk is a great medium for bactrial growth. It is in fact a medium used by labs to purposefully grow some bacteria. The issue with milk is getting it to the public. If everyone had a cow, it is less of a problem. You then don't have an issue of storage, transport. But that is not our situation. Plus you add the amount of milk that gets mixed together in large dairies. Potential for harm shoots up dramatically.

Chilling is the key. As producers we have to get the milk down to less than 7 C within three hours of milking or the milk company won't pick it up. If I get the milk I use at home into the fridge reasonably quickly it'll keep for several days (unpasteurised) without noticeable deterioration. But a few hours in a warm room is enough to give it an 'off' taste indicating that bacteria have been multiplying. At low temperatures there is negligible increase in levels of bacteria.

 

[chippie]

Commercial Farmer,
Milk is one of the most controlled and safest foods in the market today. The milk is tested at the dairy before it is loaded into the tanker truck, and it is tested again once it reaches the processing plant before it is unloaded. If it has any antibiotic residues or prohibited substances and does not meet the standards, it gets dumped and the farmer takes the loss.

http://www.agricultured.org/2012/07/12/dairy-safety-testing-milk/

Have you ever heard of Ultra-pasteurized milk?

 

[Jogeephus]

Ok, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in the works. Years ago Sears and Roebuck used to sell home pasteurizers in their catalogues. Many farm families would own one especially if they made their own cheese and butter. Do those who are against home milk sales feel that selling home grown home pasteurized milk is wrong too?

 

[Arkansas]

I looked it up, seems to be a few deaths from it 12 yrs ago.. But most are from improper sanitation. Have you looked up pasteurized milk? May be very surprised to learn that Pasteurized milk has killed just as many and pasteurized milk also has had 3 times more kids born with birth defects and also a lot born slow to use a better term... Pasteurized Milk 203 cases of illness in 2012 and Raw milk 112 illness for the year.. Cases of Death 2012 alone there are 3 cases in Pasteurized Milk and Raw milk there hasn't been a death in 12 yrs.. I realize that the majority of population drinks pasteurized milk so its hard to make a true comparison. But the CDC has been covering up for the big time milk corporations like Prairie Farms for years and now the CDC is being subpoenaed to court over alot of it.. Saying they must release the true facts about both sides.. And seems to be that Raw milk is best for all according to there findings.. I don't know how true this is or if its been misconstrued or not so you will have to do the looking into it yourself. The more I read the more I see it says its dangerous and the more I see saying its great.. So I guess its just gonna have to be more of a personal choice to drink it or not..

Is this all CDC data? (I'm to lazy to go to their website) 300 million people in the US, most of whom drink milk of the "factory" variety. 203 illnesses is nothing. I don't know how many people drink raw milk, But I'm pretty sure it is a lot lower number. So 123 got sick.
If the farmer is selling, and people are buying, I really don't want to put government in the middle. But, I'm happy that restaurants are inspected and can be shut down by the health dept.
Really good Dairymen are certifiably Obsessive-Compulsive. I figure this will bring some newbies into the market, for good or bad.

I am guessing its there official site seeing how it says CDC on it and the .gov at the end But as I said the sizes in Pasteurized Milk and Raw milk are about half the difference in Illness but also take in account that there are way MORE Pasteurized Milk drinkers and probably only a handful of Raw Milk drinkers (in comparison)... But there are no cases of Slowness in children and Born handicapped so to speak with Raw milk in comparison to pasteurized. That's the only thing that got me to thinking was that my chances of having a kid with down syndrome would increase by 15% if I am a drinker of Pasteurized Milk versus Raw Milk.. But keep in mind this is a person that drinks at least 10 glasses of Milk a week also.. I may drink 2 Glasses if even that.. Milk at my house is used for cereal or cooking biscuits and I am sure I don't drink 10 glasses of Milk a week. I have been off the forum a lot this week so if I miss a tell then I am sorry. If its something you need to ask me send me a PM and I will reply when I am on. I don't remember the exact site address but I am sure if you look it up like CDC and Raw Milk you should find it fairly easy

 

[FarmGirl10]

One of my grandpas sisters died in childhood (I think under 5) from drinking raw milk that was produced on their own farm. After that they got a small home pasteurizer. So even off your own farm doing everything right there can be problems. But having said that, veterinary practices have come along way from then.

 

[cross_7]

One of my grandpas sisters died in childhood (I think under 5) from drinking raw milk that was produced on their own farm. After that they got a small home pasteurizer. So even off your own farm doing everything right there can be problems. But having said that, veterinary practices have come along way from then.

Farmgirl10
Good to see you around, how's that baby boy ?
His daddy home for good yet ?
Tell him how much we appreciate what he is doing us and our country
And God bless him and his comrade in arms

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Commercial Farmer,
Milk is one of the most controlled and safest foods in the market today. The milk is tested at the dairy before it is loaded into the tanker truck, and it is tested again once it reaches the processing plant before it is unloaded. If it has any antibiotic residues or prohibited substances and does not meet the standards, it gets dumped and the farmer takes the loss.

http://www.agricultured.org/2012/07/12/dairy-safety-testing-milk/

Have you ever heard of Ultra-pasteurized milk?

I know it was tested in tanker and if residue present it gets dumped. I was just meaning, if people are going to be buying it without treatment, they should want to see the history.

I may need to change my view and I'm all about being truly objective on things. It is just an innate feeling for me to want to prevent, preventable diseases- and I mean within reason. But I sure see Jo's point about freedom to sell a product, and I believe in that. I hate over regulation.

I was trying to communicate that in the last post. I'm torn.

I'll try to give you a little further information as to why I worry about little kids. A little kid I know of (not closely) was at a goat farm this past year. Petted a couple goats. Went home and within 72 hours was in the ER. Ecoli infection just from petting goats. It was touch and go for several days. Nothing the doctors could do but support him. It was very likely for him to go into kidney failure. Luckily for the family didn't. But current treatment, they don't use antibiotics as it is likely to kill them from shock after sudden death of the bacteria and toxin release.

Freak incident. But man I'd hate for 50 kids to go through that. Probably more emotional response. But I can recognize that... Maybe.

 

[Ouachita]

Ok, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in the works. Years ago Sears and Roebuck used to sell home pasteurizers in their catalogues. Many farm families would own one especially if they made their own cheese and butter. Do those who are against home milk sales feel that selling home grown home pasteurized milk is wrong too?

I've agreed with every post you've made on this topic including this one. But what just happened here in AR was an attemp to make raw milk sales legal, with conditions, but they got the wrong conditions.
Hell I can't even kill weeds on my own land without sitting through a short class to educate me about the consequences of mishandling the product, and pay a fee. Renew each year.......
I'm sure if you read this law you would it should have been better. I don't think they read the bill. Imagine that

 

[chippie]

they still make them. http://www.cheesemaking.com/HomeMilkPasteurizer-110Volts.html

 

[chippie]

All I can say is that I would hope that the consumer educates him or herself about proper handling of the product and research the farm or person selling the milk. Visit the premises and see how things are done.

Chances are there were people selling raw milk to friends and others before it became legal. They do it here. I see ads on Craigslist all of the time (and it isn't a dairy advertising).

 

[Jogeephus]

I can't even kill weeds on my own land without sitting through a short class to educate me about the consequences of mishandling the product, and pay a fee. Renew each year.......

Repay your dues each year. Tell me about it. I have several licenses and they run up into some serious money and I still need four more licenses that I know of. Thing is these licenses do not influence how I do anything. Sure, every now and then I get a glimmer of useful information but most of the time its just a waste of time or being told of yet another law or regulation I must adhere to. But really I just view it as a pay to play tax.

There is a point of diminishing returns but the government does not recognize this. How many rights and freedoms do we have to give up so they can chase 100% safety. Personally, I don't think you can fix stupid. I also think its ironic that the feds think its wrong for states to require valid proof of citizenship for voting purposes but are all for regulating what we can and cannot sell to our neighbors. Maybe its just me but I think voting is a bit more important than being licensed to sell a chicken egg.

I do think the milk industry and/or big ag has done a great job keeping our food safe for the masses but I also feel that people should have the right to trade amongst people in the community as long as these products are not being shipped outside the community. This is the case in many industrialized countries. The production of cottage foods are exempt from government regulations and I think it only right that this be the case here too.

All I can say is that I would hope that the consumer educates him or herself about proper handling of the product and research the farm or person selling the milk. Visit the premises and see how things are done.

I agree. Maybe more purchases directly from the farm would give people a better understanding of what is required to raise food. Maybe they will also learn that all brown eggs aren't organic. :lol2:

For what its worth, I've drank raw milk many times and only got sick on it once. I love the taste and the silky smoothness of it but I seriously doubt I will ever drink it again unless it is pasteurized. But whole milk, I'm referring to the real stuff before the butter fat has been robbed is a wonderful thing to me. Pasteurized or not - real whole milk is good stuff and I think every person should have it at least once to know what milk is supposed to taste like. But if it were my children drinking it, I would want to pasteurize it first.