Ranching in Manitoba

[H and H]

Does anyone have experience with ranching in Canada? I am curious about an operation North of Winnepeg? Property values on a per pair basis seem reasonable, but I would assume that is due to a short grazing season and long cold winter feeding season. I would like to also understand export politics, is it going to be possible to finish the calves in the Midwest?

Thanks in advance - Gabe

 

[Aaron]

Hopefully rockridgecattle will chime in. She knows the many challenges of ranching in that area.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Why Manitoba?
Your absolutely prime cattle country is Alberta or Sask. and B.C. also has some good cattle country, but be aware the winters are probably longer than what you are used to, and a lot harsher, with alot more predators to eat your animals.
Depending on where you are,often you can only get one hay crop, some real good years you might get two depending on where you are and whether you have a hotter and longer than normal summer. I have seen years where hay crops are poor and of course the prices go up, and a fair number of people truck hay long distances when that happens, and of course
this causes the prices of hay to be higher than they normally are south of the 49 th parallel.
Alberta has the huge meat packing houses, so cattle prices are often better there than other areas.
The north country in many areas is mosquito "heaven" and around Winnipeg even more so due to the large number of large lakes in the area. the cattle are often driven nuts by the bugs.
Land prices that are low are usually due to being in a remote area with few local jobs or industries, and few nice paved roads, and few towns of any size. Small towns mean little selection if you are a person who likes to shop, and high prices for what is there.
Things are starting to change as foreigners from Saudi Arabia, China etc are coming in and buying up huge tracts of land for crazy prices, so much so that it is becoming more difficult for local people in some areas to buy a decent size piece of ground, and you hear the grumbling down the grapevine.
Also the prices for vet care is often pretty high due to the long distances they travel, unless you can take your animal to the vet office. Often to reduce Vet costs some of the neighbors "pool" work that needs to be done, which means the vet comes out one day to a number of farms in an area and the neighbors split the travel costs the vet charges.
For a vet to come in our area it is about 47 miles one way, and then of course their return trip, and they charge accordingly
Raising cattle has its challenges in the north, but it can be done..

 

[H and H]

Manitoba is being considered due to the land cost. We have a farm in the Midwest and would like to purchase additional grazing property - however, the surge in cropland and cattle prices have taken pasture prices with it. Good pasture in our area will cost ~$10,000 - $11,000 per pair to purchase. It doesn't cash flow, and we aren't interested in completely subsidizing this land acquisition with our existing property.

"According to the realtor" - this property has sufficient hay and crop ground to carry the cows year round. It is also close enough to our current farm, that if the hay crop failed and we ran out of winter feed, we could truck the cows back home for ~$60 per head.

This property is about 60-70% Crown Lease. Do you have any experience with these? How big of a risk is there that you won't get the lease back once they expire? Is there a bunch of red tape that goes along with keeping the lease (i.e. you have jump through flaming hoops to keep the lease or worse yet let all Canadian citizens hunt and fish on the government owned property)?

I hadn't previously considered predation and insects as a major challenge, this property adjoins/contains four different lakes, so skeeters could be a huge deal for the cattle - limiting profitability for sure.

My dad, brother, and I are interested in the property and think that it would be an awesome adventure but it is equally intimidating. The next step is to visit the area, we want to see the worst of winter and talk to some of the locals about the challenges they face. The real question is which one of us has the cajones to make the move.

Nite Hawk - Thank you for your insight.

 

[randiliana]

We'll, crown lease isn't usually a big deal, we basically treat it just like our owned land. My biggest question about that in you're case would be if you could actually lease it if you are not Canadian. There really aren't too many hoops, You won't have to allow anyone on the land unless you want to. Once you get the lease it isn't a problem to renew it.

Being from SW Sask, I don't really know the climate there, but I would expect long and cold winters. Probably in excess of 6 months. Unless you can stockpile quite a bit of pasture or swath graze or something you will probably feed for at least 6 months. Calving in that area will probably be Apr or later unless you have some fairly good facilities as well.

 

[snake67]

While I am about to give you opinion and not fact, these are things you need to look out for "just in case"

North of the "Peg"?

LOL - you are a booger for punishment aren't you!!?? LOL

Ever been there in the winter?

Pick your worst winter in the US of A and muliply that by two or three. You will love it!!

Lots of black spruce for firewood though - and you will need it to keep warm.

First and foremost - best you pick a Canadian lawyer close to the area you are talking about getting in to. This is the first thing you will need to do.

You will be feeding for at least six months and maybe more like seven and a bit if the weather goes south and the grass does not grow on you. The black flies and mosquitoes will stop and ask you if they can give you a lift. Frost and snow can happen in every month of the year and the temps can become unbearably hot in the summer time - it is a real challenge at times - but if you are there you will adjust - others did - so no reason you cannot.

Think great pastures - surrounded by muskeg and wolves! LOL Awesome country though. Well and truly wild and free. Well sort of. Be sure there are no indian land claim issues that could affect you.

Leasing can be an issue for foreign folks in some provinces - and so can immigration (especially immigration - do not even think to ignore this - it can cost you big time!) - and there may also be rules on foreign ownership of land - as there is in Saskatchewan - and work permits may be required and so on.

Leasing in some places, you control the land only for the grazing period - once the cattle are off you have to open the gates - or that used to be the case where I was in 100 Mile House - so get your ducks in a row there first. This one is really important as hunting is an issue - and unless you become permanent residents or are under a guide you will not likely be legal to hunt anyways - and there are guiding territories that may indeed take in portions of your leased land - and that takes you back to immigration. Unless you plan to hire someone to run the place in your absence.

Transfer of leases might be an issue - and might not. But be ready for this to jump up and bite you in the azz.

You might find it tough to move cattle across borders unless vaccination protocols are in place. Blue tongue comes to mind - and sometimes those borders can be a problem even when you have all the ducks in a row - but we do ship them south and we do get them coming north - so it can be done. There are people more knowledgeable than me on that one.

In fact, I think you will find there is a pretty good swack of bureauracry involved.

Remember - that realtor might not be working for you as much as he is the commission - it is not really as simple as you might like to think because you ARE dealing with a totally different type of government - both federally and provincially in this case - from what you might be used to dealing with.

And finally - if you are serious, I have a Manitoba rancher phone number and possibly more than one who might be willing to chat with you - that you might like to use for upfront and personal info.

Good luck in this

Bez

 

[jedstivers]

Talk to the ranchers and lawyers, not the realtor.

 

[plumber_greg]

This is interesting, I agree with Jed. But, man wouldn't it be an adventure for a young man to go up there and try it. gs

 

[Nite Hawk]

Definately talk to the local people over the realtor. There are good realtors out there, but an awful lot of them are salesmen /women, and will tell you what they think you want to hear.
There is something called business immigration where if you have like $200,000 or there abouts to invest in a business, you might get fast-tracked immigration, as long as you don't have a criminal record or something like that.
Thats out of most of our leagues, but thought I would mention it anyways.
Don't know exactly where you are planning to look, but remember the Flin-Flon Manitoba area used to hold the record for the coldest spot in Canada for a long long time, ( heard somewhere it was like minus -90F* but then who knows, maybe someones thermometer wasn't working right, and maybe they had too much "hooch" and didn't read it right??)
and if you don't like it THAT cold, you might move over a bit...