Raising vs buying replacement heifers

[Caustic Burno]

im with dcc . most of yall are saying the man raising replacments is just breaking even selling at 12 to 1400.i cant see that. i say raise your own is a bit cheaper.>>>>TC

Its simple math it cost a dollar a day to maintain a cow.
You have two years before the heifer pays a return to the farm and two years before the cow pays a return. The up keep on the cow is at 730 dollars before she produces another calf and another 180 bucks upkeep before that calf is ready to sell.
The retained heifer has a cost of 525 dollars since weaning at 205 days until calving. You have tied up over 1400 bucks in that heifer before you have recieved a dime in return. Secondly you have tied op your money in an unproven commodity as calving heifers is a crap shoot. Third if the heifer dies you have no write off on her as she was farm raised.
Complete looser on retaining heifers other than for genetic puposes only.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1. Facilities - if you have them, you are ahead of the curve.

2. Time and effort - think of how much time it takes to manage one herd. You can expect to spend at least 50% more time taking care of the heifers until they reach breeding weight.

3. Added costs of worming and vaccinations for these heifers for 3 years of non-production.

1) You need an extra pen and an extra bale feeder.

2) Man, you guys put alot of time and effort into your heifers. My heifers get weaned and the best get separated out and stuffed into a pen that receives bedding, feed, and mineral. I do this at the same time that I'm bedding and feeding my feeders. It takes me an extra 10 minutes feeding, and an extra 1/2 hour every 3 or 4 days for bedding. When breeding season comes, they get the boot into the herd and thats the last of any "special" management.

3) I'm not sure why you'd lose 3 years. If they're not dropping calves by 2 years old, you're holding them back too long or else you have slow maturing animals.

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money? As a commercial cattleman, are your expenses really that much higher than a seedstock producer? I hope not, otherwise you're not making any money at all. The only way I can see seedstock being cheaper is if you go outside your main area to a lower cost of production area to purchase your seedstock.

Rod

 

[Tc]

its a crapshoot buying heifers too.plus you have to sell 2.5 calves to get your 1400$ back. that will take 2 years or more if you dont have any problems.plus money it takesfor feed and upkeep.>>>>>>>>tc

 

[Victoria]

From a purely economic point of view the simple answer is to get the cheapest buy as Caustic said - look for second or third calvers with calf.
That said you have to be careful buying that kind of animal, if you don't have experience or hit the right sales you won't do well.
There is more involved than simple economics though. Every operation is different and has different costs. The first question is are your own heifers good enough to keep? The idea is to improve your herd if your own aren't doing it then you have to go elsewhere. Put the pen to the paper for your own herd in your own area.
Currently I can buy a young bred cow for the same price as I would sell a heifer calf for. It's the market here at this time.
However, we like to keep our own. When we buy commercially from sales there is a high turn over rate. We are really picky about disposition, if you aren't that isn't a concern for you. Buying purebreds I still would prefer a calf to a bred heifer. There's the cost but I get to train her how I want her instead of having the animal come with preconceived notions of how they should be treated.
Look at every aspect and do what is right for you.

 

[alftn]

I have bought replacements, I feel that i can raise better quality than I can buy... It is a matter if you got room..I like to keep cows, Heifers, steers to there own groups...Seem to do better...Some times I have a spring and fall calfing season,then things get a little more hectic..After a while of keeping heifers,it does not seem like a two year wait, because every breeding season you have new heifer you have to consider breeding....I also do now breed untill 24 mo old....give or take ....4 mo...(spring breed / fall breed) .. I donot want calving problems, and have not had them...

 

[novatech]

I raise and sell replacement F1 heifers. The only ones I keep are regestered purebreds that I cannot replace the genetics on for less money than raiseing them. I sell all heifers at weaning age for $200 to $350 less than I can get for them bred a year or more latter. I do not have the cost feeding them. I do not take the risk in keeping them. I have no overhead associated with them. I can reinvest the proceeds from them. The people that buy them get the gamble and expense. The purebreds I keep will take a least 5 years to turn a profit. I can buy a proven dam ready to go for slightly more than a weaned calf. I can buy an older cow, proven, for even less. When I get rid of them, they are canners, or sometimes shoved in a hole and covered with dirt.(rare)
The one thing I cannot understand is why people are not takeing full advantage of heterosis. It just seems hard to do when you are keeping crossbreds to breed with other crossbreds.

 

[aplusmnt]

My figures two months ago on a previous thread:

Been crunching the numbers on this a bunch lately here is what I have came up with. Using the Average cost of $1.00 per day up keep per head.

$365.00 Cow cost from Wean of previous calf to wean of
retained heifer 12 months

$270.00 Heifer cost post weaning in open Stage 270 days

$180.00 Heifer up keep while bred 180 days to the point that
I would be buying a bred heifer 3 months prior to
Calving.

$815.00 Total

This is the cost to raise a heifer to the point that I would be buying a bred heifer. Usually buying bred heifers when 6 months bred. This would bring me up to the equal point of buying that already bred one. Then there would be another $90.00 cost to take her that last 90 days to calving but that cost would also be there if I bought a bred.

Price might be a little higher due to more feed, pelvic exam and few other cost over and above say the $1.00 per day average cost.

If you bought a bred heifer at say $1,200.00 you would save around $385.00 buy retaining one

BUT you would loose say $500.00 from the heifer you could have sold to buy that bred, and you loose one extra calf that the bought Bred would have had that the retained one would have not had, that is another $500.00.

So to me a retained heifer cost me $615.00 more than buying a bred heifer at $1,200.00

Would cost even more if I could find a good bred for say $1,000.00 because the cost of retaining one does not change. So if I found $1,000.00 bred heifers my cost of retaining one verses buying bred makes me an $815.00 looser.

But then to buy one I have to float the extra cash to put with the sale price of the could be retained heifer. I might not have that cash to put with it so retaining might be the best way to grow the herd.

Hope that all makes since. Probably some Kansas Math mistakes in there somewhere.

 

[flaboy?]

BUT you would loose say $500.00 from the heifer you could have sold to buy that bred, and you loose one extra calf that the bought Bred would have had that the retained one would have not had, that is another $500.00.

So to me a retained heifer cost me $615.00 more than buying a bred heifer at $1,200.00

Would cost even more if I could find a good bred for say $1,000.00 because the cost of retaining one does not change. So if I found $1,000.00 bred heifers my cost of retaining one verses buying bred makes me an $815.00 looser.

Your calculations almost mirror mine.

I didn't buy any replacements last year (06) but will this year. In 05 I was paying anywhere from $700-$1000 for a good blooded (not reg) bred heifer. These were mostly Brangus and Angus. I did buy a couple Char's just because I got them for about $100 less than the others.

 

[Dusty Britches]

1) You need an extra pen and an extra bale feeder.

2) Man, you guys put alot of time and effort into your heifers. My heifers get weaned and the best get separated out and stuffed into a pen that receives bedding, feed, and mineral. I do this at the same time that I'm bedding and feeding my feeders. It takes me an extra 10 minutes feeding, and an extra 1/2 hour every 3 or 4 days for bedding. When breeding season comes, they get the boot into the herd and thats the last of any "special" management.

3) I'm not sure why you'd lose 3 years. If they're not dropping calves by 2 years old, you're holding them back too long or else you have slow maturing animals.

The 3 years was a typo - I meant 2. It takes me 20 minutes to get the tractor, feed the herd and put the tractor up. It takes me another 10 minutes to feed the heifers = 50%. That extra pen we use to retain the heifers and keep it to where we don't have to supplement feed (other than hay) is lost to grazing the herd. The heifers are typically weaned at about 6 months and held until 16 months in that pasture. We vaccinate them for Bangs if we keep them. The ones we sell with the stockers only get the BVD, Black Leg, etc. vaccinations.

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money? As a commercial cattleman, are your expenses really that much higher than a seedstock producer? I hope not, otherwise you're not making any money at all. The only way I can see seedstock being cheaper is if you go outside your main area to a lower cost of production area to purchase your seedstock.

Rod

You could ask the same question about why it is cheaper to buy than raise your hay. Unless you specialize in it, rather than dabble in it, you won't make money.

 

[Frankie]

Don't forget that every heifer won't be a breeder. You can get quite a bit of money tied up in a replacement heifer only to find out that she won't settle or will be a late breeder and mess up your calving interval. Buying bred heifers will remove at least those problems.

 

[aplusmnt]

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money?
Rod

If you look at my figures above if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him

 

[novatech]

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money?
Rod

If you look at my figures above if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him

I think the key words are, squeeze and as much as.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Buying bred heifers will remove at least those problems.

Not necessarily. I've bought bred heifers that aborted at 7 months and wouldn't breed back. The breeder was good about it and replaced her, but I still had feed and time into her. Overall, I think you're taking far less risk with your own stock than someone elses. You know your cows, you know your environment and you know your genetics.

I pencilled up a long term balance sheet a while back. When I'm doing night checks tonight, I'll update the prices to reflect todays prices and see if my pencilling still figures.

Rod

 

[cfpinz]

Overall, I think you're taking far less risk with your own stock than someone elses. You know your cows, you know your environment and you know your genetics.

Rod

I agree 100%. But it's hard to put a dollar value on those things. The home-raised cattle will return a better investment over the long-term but they take longer to get into production. Six one way, half a dozen the other.

cfpinz

 

[novatech]

I have seen several people cost out what it takes to raise a heifer to when she calves. None of this puts any dollar value on genetic improvement and the future income from that improvement. This is probably an imposability, But some estamites can be made in expected weight gains, calveing ease, ect.
As far as calculateing cost. You will never agree if you use different methods of calculateing.
I found this one and it looks pretty good.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/beef/compo ... esson6.pdf

 

[Caustic Burno]

its a crapshoot buying heifers too.plus you have to sell 2.5 calves to get your 1400$ back. that will take 2 years or more if you dont have any problems.plus money it takesfor feed and upkeep.>>>>>>>>tc

I have never said buy heifers might as well go to Vegas I have always pushed bred cows or 3 n 1's a proven comodity.

Give me a 6 or 7 year old cow anyday that knows how to work and earn a living.

I can buy bred cows cheaper than raising a crapshoot.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money?
Rod

If you look at my figures above if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him

Your shopping at the wrong place as I passed the other day on some dang fine heavy bred at 1050.

 

[aplusmnt]

Let me ask this question, and this is a serious question:

For all of you who feel that raising your own replacements is expensive, how is it that the guy selling the heifer replacements is making money?
Rod

If you look at my figures above if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him

Your shopping at the wrong place as I passed the other day on some dang fine heavy bred at 1050.

Yea I was kind of looking at the top end of the spectrum. The cheaper the Bred Heifers are then the more of a money looser retaining heifers would be. Retaining figures do not change much.

 

[Crowderfarms]

its a crapshoot buying heifers too.plus you have to sell 2.5 calves to get your 1400$ back. that will take 2 years or more if you dont have any problems.plus money it takesfor feed and upkeep.>>>>>>>>tc

I have never said buy heifers might as well go to Vegas I have always pushed bred cows or 3 n 1's a proven comodity.

Give me a 6 or 7 year old cow anyday that knows how to work and earn a living.

I can buy bred cows cheaper than raising a crapshoot.

I'm fixin' to haul a load of heifers to the Sale Barn Monday.Every nickel they bring is going to be re-invested into H.B. Cows.They're the closest thing to a sure bet in this business.

 

[Caustic Burno]

its a crapshoot buying heifers too.plus you have to sell 2.5 calves to get your 1400$ back. that will take 2 years or more if you dont have any problems.plus money it takesfor feed and upkeep.>>>>>>>>tc

I have never said buy heifers might as well go to Vegas I have always pushed bred cows or 3 n 1's a proven comodity.

Give me a 6 or 7 year old cow anyday that knows how to work and earn a living.

I can buy bred cows cheaper than raising a crapshoot.

I'm fixin' to haul a load of heifers to the Sale Barn Monday.Every nickel they bring is going to be re-invested into H.B. Cows.They're the closest thing to a sure bet in this business.

Wise Cattleman