Raising Registered Bulls and Bull development

[bull56]

Commercial cattle producers who are buying bulls don't want them fat, which make perfect sence. But what is the the best feeding program for weaned bulls so that they can grow, have good yearling weights and yet not be overyly fat.

Purina has a product that many producers in this area use (Purina Impact Beef Grower RM 125-T 52). The tag says to feed it at the rate of 82.5% coarse cracked corn and 17.5% of the Purina product. In a ton mix this would be 1650 lbs of corn plus 350 lbs of the Purina product.

If bull buyers do not want bulls fed a high starch fattening diet, wouldn't this mix be just that (a high starch diet?). They want small birth weights, good weaning weights and good yearling weights. They kind of want their cake and eat it too.

To summarize: What is a good feed mix or product to feed these bulls to show their genetic potential and have good yearling weights and not show a little fat?

 

[novatech]

I feed a blend of moderately fertilized grass in the pasture. Supplement with 12% protein feed (mostly to keep them gentle) and hay (when needed). Watch their body condition and fecal condition (splat test). Any bull or heifer I sell is ready to go to pasture when the buyer loads it.

 

[TexasBred]

Commercial cattle producers who are buying bulls don't want them fat, which make perfect sence. But what is the the best feeding program for weaned bulls so that they can grow, have good yearling weights and yet not be overyly fat.

Purina has a product that many producers in this area use (Purina Impact Beef Grower RM 125-T 52). The tag says to feed it at the rate of 82.5% coarse cracked corn and 17.5% of the Purina product. In a ton mix this would be 1650 lbs of corn plus 350 lbs of the Purina product.

If bull buyers do not want bulls fed a high starch fattening diet, wouldn't this mix be just that (a high starch diet?). They want small birth weights, good weaning weights and good yearling weights. They kind of want their cake and eat it too.

To summarize: What is a good feed mix or product to feed these bulls to show their genetic potential and have good yearling weights and not show a little fat?

Bull, when you mix according to instructions, does it tell you what your resulting finished feed will be protein wise? Normally something in the area of 11% protein will be adequate and preferrably with some roughage products such as cottonseed hulls mixed into the feed to bulk up the feed and give it more of a "fill factor". Whatever you feed I'd make sure they get plenty of long stem roughage to avoid rumen related problems.

 

[bull56]

Had the vet out today and was asking him. It is like I thought. This feed will put the weight on the bulls for a good yearling weight and some continue to feeding this mixture until the bulls are sold. Once the bulls go to their new home and are put out into the pasture for breeding they melt and won't hold up.

Therefore, while I think feeding bulls a mix like this may be OK to get a good yearling weight (most breeds allow the yearling weight to be taken at a minimum of 320 days) I feel the bulls should at that time be changed over to a ration that would still allow them to grow and develope and not become fat bulls that commercial cattlemen are not wanting.

Fat may sell, but with feed prices these days, at what cost?

 

[oakcreekfarms]

If you a push a bull to yearling and then slowly decrease the feed ration until bulls go to new homes there shouldn't be any problems. Yearling bulls need to be in very good condition when going out to breed. Bulls will lose excess fat first, if they don't have that fat reserve then they will lost muscle first. Anyway you look at it yearling bulls are going to lose weight during their first breeding season, and should be fed a good diet to get back into shape for their second breeding season. Our feed is a wheat midd, corn, soy hull, soybean meal, and dried alfalfa type of diet, it runs 14/4 and has done well with our bulls for them only being on feed for 60 days. They are pushed until scan data and weights are taken, then let off slowly.

 

[TexasBred]

If you a push a bull to yearling and then slowly decrease the feed ration until bulls go to new homes there shouldn't be any problems. Yearling bulls need to be in very good condition when going out to breed. Bulls will lose excess fat first, if they don't have that fat reserve then they will lost muscle first. Anyway you look at it yearling bulls are going to lose weight during their first breeding season, and should be fed a good diet to get back into shape for their second breeding season. Our feed is a wheat midd, corn, soy hull, soybean meal, and dried alfalfa type of diet, it runs 14/4 and has done well with our bulls for them only being on feed for 60 days. They are pushed until scan data and weights are taken, then let off slowly.

OCF sounds like a good mixture. Highly digestible, good fiber source and plenty of energy. (wondering how they get the 4% fat tho) I'd probably have them cut out the alfalfa and cut the price a bit. Just my 2 cents worth. ;-)

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I forgot to add DD to the mix as well, it's a good feed for what I am trying to do. Some of my May calves have gotten a little fat to quick, but my older calves have grown out really well on it.

The feed mill where I was getting that feed is going out of business, so the new mix will be a new mix. The last time we bought 2 ton of the grain it ran $250 a ton, at the start of the year it was $220 a ton. Expensive, but not as bad as some places so I shouldn't complain

 

[TexasBred]

Considering what you're getting the price is not high at all. Even the newer and higher price. You can hardly buy a sack ofcheap creep feed in the feed store for that price...

 

[TB-Herefords]

You can finish bulls off with out getting them too fat. when you offer them for sell you should have them pasture ready. If you have buyers that want bulls befor they are offered they should understand the feed ration the bulls are on and they should wean them from the ration to prevent melt down or offer to keep the bulls till weaned from the ration. Figure what kind of gain you want to put on them and feed a ration according to that. Some will convert better and some wont but you wont have a bunch of fat bulls. I think that's better than pushing them to the max till yearlings then backing off.

 

[deenranch]

I usually feed my bulls all they will eat until they get 12 months. This allows the bulls to put on as much muscle as their genetics will allow. After that I turn them out in a big trap and feed cottonseed cubes 3 times a week. I haven't had a customer complain about the bulls falling apart. The bulls look good and are able to survive on forages and not full feed.

 

[novatech]

Well it seems as though I may be the only one that does not feed out bulls. Is there something I am missing? They are in a pasture with high nutritional grass, to the point of having the squirts. I don't care what one feeds, grass or feed, a bull can only digest so much protein and the rumen system does not give a hoot where it comes from. When I feed it is a supplement to lesser quality forage. So why is it necessary to feed out a bull? Do you do this regardless of the amount of forage available? Sorry but I flat do not understand.

I thought I should add this. I am in no way condemning what you do, I am wanting to know why?

 

[TexasBred]

Well it seems as though I may be the only one that does not feed out bulls. Is there something I am missing? They are in a pasture with high nutritional grass, to the point of having the squirts. I don't care what one feeds, grass or feed, a bull can only digest so much protein and the rumen system does not give a hoot where it comes from. When I feed it is a supplement to lesser quality forage. So why is it necessary to feed out a bull? Do you do this regardless of the amount of forage available? Sorry but I flat do not understand.

I thought I should add this. I am in no way condemning what you do, I am wanting to know why?

Completely understand. If the grazing you have now is enough to give them the squirts they certainly don't need a bunch of expensive grain. What are they on?? Wheat, rye, oats? Regardless it's high protein. When it's gone you'll probalby have some good coastal to graze as well but in late summer it will get pretty worthless. A little added protein and energy wouldn't hurt at that time but no need to worry about it now. Good job

 

[novatech]

Well it seems as though I may be the only one that does not feed out bulls. Is there something I am missing? They are in a pasture with high nutritional grass, to the point of having the squirts. I don't care what one feeds, grass or feed, a bull can only digest so much protein and the rumen system does not give a hoot where it comes from. When I feed it is a supplement to lesser quality forage. So why is it necessary to feed out a bull? Do you do this regardless of the amount of forage available? Sorry but I flat do not understand.

I thought I should add this. I am in no way condemning what you do, I am wanting to know why?

Completely understand. If the grazing you have now is enough to give them the squirts they certainly don't need a bunch of expensive grain. What are they on?? Wheat, rye, oats? Regardless it's high protein. When it's gone you'll probalby have some good coastal to graze as well but in late summer it will get pretty worthless. A little added protein and energy wouldn't hurt at that time but no need to worry about it now. Good job

I simply beleive that one of the most important statments ever on these boards when it comes to cattle is;

Your are a grass farmer first.

Taken from Caustic

Everything after that is a supplement, including hay.

 

[luckefarm]

form the time my bulls are weaned they are fed grower developer diets, consisting of hay (native hay and alfalfa) silage, wet distillers grain,
high moisture corn and liquid supplement to provide balanced 12-13% protein diets. i sell them at 12 to 14 months of age and never have a problem with them.

 

[TexasBred]

form the time my bulls are weaned they are fed grower developer diets, consisting of hay (native hay and alfalfa) silage, wet distillers grain,
high moisture corn and liquid supplement to provide balanced 12-13% protein diets. i sell them at 12 to 14 months of age and never have a problem with them.

Sure feeding lots of "water" as everything in the diet if high moisture.

 

[luckefarm]

form the time my bulls are weaned they are fed grower developer diets, consisting of hay (native hay and alfalfa) silage, wet distillers grain,
high moisture corn and liquid supplement to provide balanced 12-13% protein diets. i sell them at 12 to 14 months of age and never have a problem with them.

Sure feeding lots of "water" as everything in the diet if high moisture.

are
the hay isn't high moisture. i should of wrote that out a little better. they hay is placed in a mixer wagon with the other ingredients and fed. the bulls are only fed this till they're there used for their first breeding then they only get grass and or hay.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

You do realize that most peoples grass doesn't allow for year round forage?

 

[msscamp]

Well it seems as though I may be the only one that does not feed out bulls.

No, you're not. We never fed out our bulls, either. As weaning calves they got a little grain - about a pound/animal - as well as medicated pellets, and pasture when we had it. Once they hit yearling status, they were on straight pasture - again, when we had it. When we didn't have pasture, they were dry-lotted, and they got ground hay mixed with a little beet pulp.

 

[novatech]

You do realize that most peoples grass doesn't allow for year round forage?

Mine does not either. But the fact still is everything else is a supplement. At the price of those supplements I would think that one would try and conserve there use as much as possible. More often than not, many people could start turning a profit just by getting rid of some cattle and not over stock.
Many people feed out there bulls just because they think they are supposed to even though they have more than adequate forage in the pasture.

 

[luckefarm]

You do realize that most peoples grass doesn't allow for year round forage?

Mine does not either. But the fact still is everything else is a supplement. At the price of those supplements I would think that one would try and conserve there use as much as possible. More often than not, many people could start turning a profit just by getting rid of some cattle and not over stock.
Many people feed out there bulls just because they think they are supposed to even though they have more than adequate forage in the pasture.

here in Michigan there is not adequate forage for the winter especially this year with record snow falls. the corn and silage are all produced here and are used to make the hay more palatable and make up less than 5% of the mix. i have been using this program a few years after i seen how the college kids were backgrounding bulls. i have also come across feeding programs similar to this at sales in south Dakota, Iowa, and Minnesota. i have tried it and can tell you for the amount of input it has been worth the return i have been getting. but i also live in the corn belt. not everything works for everybody and I'm not trying to change you but it surely worked for me and i have the bulls and a better sale price to prove it for me