Quiz: AI versus Buy a Bull

[GaryDG]

Assume all cows/heifers have the same background.

cow / heiffer herd size is 15

All are registered Black Angus.

Why would you AI as instead of purchasing a good bull?

 

[novaman]

If you have only 15 head I wouldn't think there would be an advantage to AIing. You might as well just buy a bull because some of them won't take the first time when you AI and you'll be doing more work then it's worth.

 

[msscamp]

If you have only 15 head I wouldn't think there would be an advantage to AIing. You might as well just buy a bull because some of them won't take the first time when you AI and you'll be doing more work then it's worth.

But then again, if you AI you have a broader selection of genes from which to choose, you can customize according to each heifers strengths and weaknesses, and you don't have to deal with feeding/penning/dealing with the bull during the off season.

 

[novaman]

If you have only 15 head I wouldn't think there would be an advantage to AIing. You might as well just buy a bull because some of them won't take the first time when you AI and you'll be doing more work then it's worth.

But then again, if you AI you have a broader selection of genes from which to choose, you can customize according to each heifers strengths and weaknesses, and you don't have to deal with feeding/penning/dealing with the bull during the off season.

Very good point. I suppose it depends on the situation. If your just starting out and trying to breed for replacements and such you would want the best genetics and AI would allow you to do that.

 

[msscamp]

If you have only 15 head I wouldn't think there would be an advantage to AIing. You might as well just buy a bull because some of them won't take the first time when you AI and you'll be doing more work then it's worth.

But then again, if you AI you have a broader selection of genes from which to choose, you can customize according to each heifers strengths and weaknesses, and you don't have to deal with feeding/penning/dealing with the bull during the off season.

Very good point. I suppose it depends on the situation. If your just starting out and trying to breed for replacements and such you would want the best genetics and AI would allow you to do that.

You're absolutely right, whether to AI or buy a bull does depend entirely on the situation and what the ultimate goal is.

 

[GaryDG]

Concerning these two factors, what's your opinion?

The broader gene pool is important but there are costs: AI Tech, sperm, certificate, multiple takes and of course buying the bull, feeding him, and the other ancillary costs?

 

[msscamp]

Concerning these two factors, what's your opinion?

The broader gene pool is important but there are costs: AI Tech, sperm, certificate, multiple takes and of course buying the bull, feeding him, and the other ancillary costs?

You have not stated what your goals are, so this is a question that cannot be honestly answered. The certificate is not necessary unless you are wanting to register your calves, but again, whether or not that is a factor has not been stated. If it were me, I would put a pencil to it and see what works out according to what my goals were.

 

[novaman]

Just a thought but if you want to get serious you could take a class to learn how to AI. That would eliminate a big cost in the operation. Something I just thought of, if you buy a bull and you plan on keeping replacements from him you wouldn't want to put the daughters back with him.

 

[msscamp]

Something I just thought of, if you buy a bull and you plan on keeping replacements from him you wouldn't want to put the daughters back with him.

Very good point, novaman.

 

[GaryDG]

Would never do that.

Good point.

 

[msscamp]

Just a thought but if you want to get serious you could take a class to learn how to AI. That would eliminate a big cost in the operation. Something I just thought of, if you buy a bull and you plan on keeping replacements from him you wouldn't want to put the daughters back with him.

Sorry, novaman, you're whole post was very good points. Brain fart on my part.

 

[SEC]

This is assuming that you will achieve 100% conception.

Find someone that you can share a bull with and split the cost.

 

[novaman]

This is assuming that you will achieve 100% conception.

Find someone that you can share a bull with and split the cost.

The problem I see with sharing a bull is the spread of diseases and such. I have nothing against any of my neighbors and friends but I would hate to have something spread from their herd to mine. There is also a problem if you have common breeding seasons. Not trying to be negative on the idea. Just trying to point out some things.

 

[SEC]

Don't matter if you are already sharing fences with them

.

 

[msscamp]

This is assuming that you will achieve 100% conception.

Find someone that you can share a bull with and split the cost.

The chances of getting 100% conception even with a bull are slim - if that was the case there would be no need for a 60 - 90 day breeding window. There will always be those that don't settle with the first mating - regardless of whether it's bull or AI. Just my experience.

 

[msscamp]

Don't matter if you are already sharing fences with them

.

Yes, it does. Some fences are better than others and are specifically built to keep the neighbors bulls out.

 

[Hutch]

I don't see how you cannot have a bull if you are AI-ing, unless you are getting 95-100 % conception rates. I look at AI as a way of improving my herd, I still have a bull. Buy the best bull you can afford, AI and let the bull clean up. If you only AI every year you will have more open cows (Dun is exempt) open cows don't make you any $$$.

 

[cypressfarms]

I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled, and therefore you will need a clean up bull. Your choice as to what to do from there. I don't know what type of bulls your considering buying semen from, but I would use a different breed of clean up bull, like hereford, to know for sure which calves are your A.I.'s and which were cleaned up calves.

 

[dun]

I'm all for people A.I.'ing and improving their herd, but you will not get 100% settled.

Wrong, if you select for fertility in the females and cull those that don;t settle with a maximum of 2 services there's no reason to not have 100% settle. Jeanne also I believe does all AI. It akes a little more managment, but at least you don;t have to contend with a bull 365 days a year.

dun

 

[CowCop]

Since you are small, have a tech AI your cows in the beginning, while you learn to AI & improve your own technique.

There is some expense involved with AI, but the genetic progress is quicker and you don't have to mess with a bull on your property.
The expenses are:
AI School, semen tank ( consider used ) AI breeding kit and semen.

Beginners use alot more semen until they get better at AI.

If you buy a bull, get the one that best acomplishes the goals you have set for your herd. Don't skimp on cost. There is a formula to figure out how much you can spend for a bull.
I don't have it on hand, but am sure someone else has the link.
Ours comes out to $2,000. We have spent more when needed.

If you don't want to take care of the bull in the off season, then sell him.

For the past 2 years we have sold the bulls we purchased, right after the breeding season, so we don't have to deal with them through the winter. Got what we paid for them and
don't have to take up feed, labor and valuable barn space for another 8 months. It is costly to keep a bull for those extra 8 months, especially in the snow states, when he isn't being used and the damage some of these penned up bulls do is significant.