Questions, I got questions...

[boondocks]

Hopefully I can get some answers to a couple newbie questions? Here's a couple things that I need to get sorted out in my head, as I try to figure out which cow is going where the next month or two...

First, when can a weaned calf be put back with its mama? If they've been separated for at least a couple months and the mama now has a new baby, can mama and yearling be reunited within a week or so of the new baby being born, as long as nursing has been well-established?

Second, what is the best way to manage manure on smaller fields? We are trying to keep the cows on a few fields long enough to get full use out of the grass, but by the time they're done, the pasture has quite a bit of manure. In our climate, it can take well a year or two for it to really break down much. In the meantime, it greatly decreases grazing area (and I'm sure can increase pathogen load). Does everyone use a spreader or rake attachment? How do you know when "enough is enough"?

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

 

[dun]

We keep calves seperated6-8 weeks after weaning then they go back in with the cows. We fenceline wean so that may make a difference. Through the years we only had one heifer thatwent back to sucking, she started sucking agin about the time we planned on breeding her so she had been weaned for 5-6 months.
As to the manure deal, you might want to look into Management Intensive Grazing. That would be using smaller paddocks and moving them every 3-4 days to another paddock. That's the simpleist I can think to explain it. Google it, also look for anything on the subject by Jim Gerrish.

 

[Nesikep]

I try and keep my paddocks to about a week's worth of grazing.. it's a little shy of "Management Intensive Grazing", but I can't be fiddling with moving cows, salt blocks, and watering troughs on a daily basis...

Chain harrows work pretty good for breaking up the manure once they're out of the field.. I gave up on pulling them with the tractor and use my truck to do it now.. much more comfortable

 

[boondocks]

We keep calves seperated6-8 weeks after weaning then they go back in with the cows. We fenceline wean so that may make a difference. Through the years we only had one heifer thatwent back to sucking, she started sucking agin about the time we planned on breeding her so she had been weaned for 5-6 months.
As to the manure deal, you might want to look into Management Intensive Grazing. That would be using smaller paddocks and moving them every 3-4 days to another paddock. That's the simpleist I can think to explain it. Google it, also look for anything on the subject by Jim Gerrish.

I've read a bit on mob grazing--is that sort of the same idea?

 

[boondocks]

I try and keep my paddocks to about a week's worth of grazing.. it's a little shy of "Management Intensive Grazing", but I can't be fiddling with moving cows, salt blocks, and watering troughs on a daily basis...

Chain harrows work pretty good for breaking up the manure once they're out of the field.. I gave up on pulling them with the tractor and use my truck to do it now.. much more comfortable

Thanks Nesi, will look into that. Would a landscape rake work as well? We have an older one but it's basically like this: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200356626
Do you cut the field back before you drag it? we don't have goats to turn in behind the cows ! :lol2:

 

[Lucky_P]

Been doing a form of MIG for 15 years or so. Sixteen 5-acre paddocks + two 10-acre sacrifice lots, cows move almost every day - rarely, at some times of year, they may spend 2-3 days per paddock, but rarely more than 2. Helps to keep most of the forages in a vegetative state, gives about 3 weeks between return grazing to allow regrowth, and prevents cows from grazing the most palatable stuff out of existence - they eat almost everything in one pass, including some weeds & stuff that they probably wouldn't if you were just set-stocking.
If you look at the cows every day, it's not a big deal; they are READY to move to the next paddock; they'll be waiting at the gap/gate before you get there. Have tire waterers in almost every paddock, so there's no moving tanks, just dragging the mineral feeder to the next paddock. Takes longer to drive out the lane to the cows than it does to move them.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

At the risk of sounding too nosy how many head are we talking about in this set up Lucky_P?

 

[fenceman]

I've made and used several drags. This is my favorite. Heavy 23/8 pipe frame and expanded metal. Rocks ride on it for added weight. I designed it to jump stumps. It a poo smearing son of a gun.

 

[Nesikep]

Here's what I'm thinking of.. What you posted will tend to clog up, chain harrows work even if they do clog a little bit.. I highly recommend getting it with the 3pt hitch lift system.

Also, Grass tends to grow best where you leave the harrows, making them invisible, and you'll sooner or later forget you put them there and drive over them.. not good for your tires!
Here's a link to what I'm talking about
http://www.maybridgeharrows.com/

 

[Dave]

When done with a pasture harrow it is best to pick it up with a loader and hang it from the side of a corral. Don't ask me how I know this.

 

[Nesikep]

You know because of the reasons I just said right?

Know a guy who drove over a set with a nice new 4wd tractor... it de-aereated his tires very nicely.. a 4 of them. That's part of the reason I recommend the 3pt hitch option, you can carry it to the next field easily, and park it in a better place.

 

[Lucky_P]

TT,
Currently have ~55 mature cows, 12 yearling & bred heifers, 8 weanling heifers, 20 spring calves, 1 mature & 2 yearling bulls.
The 6 yearling and 8 weanlings are in the two sacrifice paddocks, away from the bulls. Everything else is rotating around the farm.
July 1, the bulls will come in, and the heifers will go back out with the cowherd.

Think it was Jim Gerrish who said that the principal benefit of dragging pastures to break up and spread manure clumps is as a government-approved method of wealth transfer - paying your kids to drive the tractor dragging the harrow. Otherwise, probably not worth the time, fuel, and wear on the equipment.

 

[boondocks]

TT,
Currently have ~55 mature cows, 12 yearling & bred heifers, 8 weanling heifers, 20 spring calves, 1 mature & 2 yearling bulls.
The 6 yearling and 8 weanlings are in the two sacrifice paddocks, away from the bulls. Everything else is rotating around the farm.
July 1, the bulls will come in, and the heifers will go back out with the cowherd.

Think it was Jim Gerrish who said that the principal benefit of dragging pastures to break up and spread manure clumps is as a government-approved method of wealth transfer - paying your kids to drive the tractor dragging the harrow. Otherwise, probably not worth the time, fuel, and wear on the equipment.

Thanks Nesi and all for the comments/suggestions/links/

Lucky, I'm interested in the countervailing arguments against dragging the pasture. (It's not like I'm looking for extra work to do, and I ain't got a kid laying around anymore. Darn thing lit out for college). If you don't spread out the manure, how do you keep the amount of grazable land from shrinking? Even if you use intensive grazing, they are in a smaller plot for a lesser period of time, so the manure per square foot doesn't really drastically change (food in, poo out), right?

As we have noticed and the extension agent pointed out, anywhere there has been a bit of manure in remotely recent history, the cows leave that patch of grass alone. It also takes a while to break down and new grass to come up there. With the short growing seasons we have here, I can't take a whole field out of commission and let it rest and break down on its own for 2 years....

Does whether it is worth the effort to drag it maybe depend a bit on the local climate???
Thanks!

 

[Nesikep]

I think you'll always benefit from dragging the pasture.. I don't do it often enough (usually in the fall on all fields).. We have really hot, dry weather, and cowpies that aren't broken up will do absolutely nothing for a year.. they just turn into adobe bricks, and you probably don't get much soil benefit from them in that state either. Chickens are really good harrows too.

I have a 12ft set of harrows, and dragging them with the truck I do 10 acres in under an hour, I listen to music and have a beer while I do it.. maybe it costs me $100 to do the whole place. The next year the baler picks up a few less cow pies in the bale too!

 

[Dave]

By doing intense grazing you are always grazing the grass in a vegetative state. This means the cell walls in the grass will not be as solidified thus they break down better in the cow gut. This is turn makes for manure which breaks down faster.

As for cows never ever grazing anywhere near manure. I have seen lots of pastures that were grazed down to the appropriate height, the cows moved off, and then had cow manure spread on then. The next time around the cows grazed it just fine.

I have in the past used a homemade pasture drag that was a railroad tie with a piece of cyclone fencing wired on to drag behind. It did a great job of breaking up manure and spreading it around.

Nesi, I only got one front tire on the pickup.

 

[M.Magis]

Dragging breaks up the piles, allowing them to break down faster. I have cow pies from last year that I missed with the drag that are still there, and the cows still eats around them. I suppose with more intense grazing, the cows walk over the pies, spreading them out before they even solidify. In that case, dragging probably serves no benefit. Also, we have no dung beetles here to break down piles, though I know in a lot of areas they play a huge role.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

TT,
Currently have ~55 mature cows, 12 yearling & bred heifers, 8 weanling heifers, 20 spring calves, 1 mature & 2 yearling bulls.
The 6 yearling and 8 weanlings are in the two sacrifice paddocks, away from the bulls. Everything else is rotating around the farm.
July 1, the bulls will come in, and the heifers will go back out with the cowherd.

Think it was Jim Gerrish who said that the principal benefit of dragging pastures to break up and spread manure clumps is as a government-approved method of wealth transfer - paying your kids to drive the tractor dragging the harrow. Otherwise, probably not worth the time, fuel, and wear on the equipment.

Thank you for the informative response Lucky_P. We need to employ a more organized and well thought out grazing system.

 

[Lucky_P]

http://www.progressiveforage.com/forage ... to-do-list

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Thank you again.

 

[bball]

http://www.progressiveforage.com/forage-production/management/pasture-improvements-for-your-spring-to-do-list

Wow. Awesome link LP. Thanks.