Questions for those who register

[LittleValleyFarm]

I've had a commercial herd that I share with my brother-in-law and father-in-law for 5 years now. We are turning out some nice cows these days and I really enjoy the work. I am considering buying a couple bred heifers that are registered so I can open up another door in the market for me, as well as eventually having some show calves for my kids. I have a friend who runs an all registered herd, some pure angus, and some sim/angus. He has two bred heifers, one all angus, and one 50/50 sim/angus. The pure angus has been AI'd to Absolute, the son of Final Answer. The sim/angus has been bred by his 50/50 sim/angus herd bull that he bought from Yon Farms in SC.
Questions: Is 2,500/apiece a decent asking price? Is this a good starting point for a registered herd? How best to market a registered bull next year if I have one? (If I have heifers, I'm keeping them).
Any other helpful tips for someone at this stage?
Thanks for all wisdom!

 

[Drzr]

$2500 ABSOLUTELY!!!

 

[WalnutCrest]

My opinion may be different from many others here, but that ain't gonna stop me from giving it!

If I'm in your shoes, I would try to buy the best (!) proven cows of 4-7 years of age (you'll get a better price on a cow who's around 6-7 than 3-4 due to age) who is confirmed bred to the bull(s) you want. This will improve the odds that you'll not have any calving problems. Starting with a small registered herd, the last thing you want to do is to lose a bred heifer to a calving problem her first go-round.

And, so, to these cows ... you want animals who were raised as similar to your approach as possible ... or harsher. You do not want to buy animals from someone who really babies his animals unless you're prepared to do the same.

Next, as to price, it's more important that you get the right genetics than the price you pay for them. When I first went shopping for cattle, I had a range of what I wanted to pay for specific animals and I stayed in my budget ... however, it was more important to me to get what I wanted to start with and to maintain good relationships with those with whom I was buying than it was to talk them down to their bottom dollar. Most (but not all) of the foundational animals I've purchased, I paid the price they were offered at. If you're insistent on getting these two particular heifers, $2500 is not even close to being too much for heifers of the highest quality. But, again, it depends on what you'er trying to do... It may be worth asking if he'd consider selling you the dams to these two heifers rather than the heifers themselves ... or ... maybe find someone who sexes embryos in utero when they're doing preg checks and buy proven cows who are carrying heifer embryos. I've done that before with great success.

Lastly, ALL regsistered breeders need to have a very sharp knife. Not all registered bulls are worth selling as breeding stock. I've been staring at a yearling bull I could sell as a breeder to someone, but he needs knife as he's not quite of the quality I want to have my named tied to. Now, this yearling of mine would improve many people's herds, he's not up to my standards. I don't raise registered Angus or Sim-Angus, but, on behalf of those who do, please have a sharp knife.

 

[branguscowgirl]

That doesn't sound too bad for a price, but it depends on quality. Just because they are registered, doesn't make them good.
If a bull calf is good enough to be a herd sire, I will show them and take them to a big bull sale that we have every year here before they turn 2, or just sell private treaty. Our West Coast Brangus Assoc has several ads in the various cattle publications listing each of us as Brangus Breeders. I usually get calls off of those ads also. Occasionally a local Brangus breeder will also need some new genetics to bring in.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Since you run a commercial herd, it sounds like you know about cattle already. The only difference between registered cattle and non registered cattle is the papers. If you want to get your kids involved in showing, getting a nice registered heifer to start with is a super idea. Another option is to buy a few embryos, and put them in your commercial cows. Then, let the cows raise the calf and you register it. You can pay a little more for heifer sexed embryos, and that way you do not have to mess with the bulls.
As far as selling, you will need to develop a market for your bulls. Not every bull calf born will make a good bull either. We sell most of our bulls by word of mouth, and I also use Facebook and Craigslist.
$2500 sounds cheap for a bred heifer, registered or not. But no matter what the price, if they are not nice looking they will never produce show heifers for your kids, period. Just something to think about.

 

[LittleValleyFarm]

I love this forum. You guys always make me think of things that I haven't considered yet.
WalnutCrest- That's solid advice. My friend is only selling his heifers because he's out of pasture and he can't keep anything else. His established cows are not on the table unfortunately, but I agree, an experienced cow has some advantages. In regards to how he treats his animals, I would say that his get a little more attention than my commercial herd, but I plan on having my personal registered herd on site at home so they will be seen every day, as opposed to a couple times per week with the others. Also, I respect your perspective on selling bulls. I'm not willing to sully my name on poor quality either, however there are some cattlemen around me who would improve their herd by using my less desirable bulls. I just won't advertise them heavily. My "good stuff" will make it to the local registered sale though.
Fire Sweep- I have heard a lot about using embryos lately. I even asked my extension agent about it, but he said it's pretty expensive for us at the moment since there isn't anyone locally who performs the procedure. I will continue to consider that though. I really like the idea of improving my genetics from both sire and dam at the same time.
Branguscowgirl- I have seen these heifers and I would rate them 7/10. They don't blow me away, but I think they are a safe investment. As far as using cattle publications, that is something I didn't think about. Thanks for the idea.
Thanks again for your input!

 

[Katpau]

Where are you located?

 

[Ojp6]

What do they weigh/how old are the? and how many months bred. It would also be good to know if they have been pelvic measured. I don't know how good of calving ease bulls those are but if the heifer have some size to them and have been pelvic measures they are worth a pile of money right now. A friend of mine just sold a bunch of commercial black heifers bred 3-4 months for 2500 but they weighed 1000+ and had been pelvic measured over 160 before breeding.

 

[cow pollinater]

I don't register anything anymore but I breed a lot of them for my customers and advise them and learn from them as well. Heifers at that price with good bloodlines are a good option to start with since you already know about cattle(I don't recommend heifers to beginners). Since you're just starting with registered cattle you don't have a name to back you up so you're going to have to rely on genetics and it's much easier to stack genetics in young cattle than it is old ones. In time you want to have a reputation of people buying bulls from you because you know what you're doing but pedigrees full of big name bulls is a good starting point for getting customers in the first place.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I love this forum. You guys always make me think of things that I haven't considered yet.

Me too!

WalnutCrest- That's solid advice. My friend is only selling his heifers because he's out of pasture and he can't keep anything else. His established cows are not on the table unfortunately, but I agree, an experienced cow has some advantages. In regards to how he treats his animals, I would say that his get a little more attention than my commercial herd, but I plan on having my personal registered herd on site at home so they will be seen every day, as opposed to a couple times per week with the others. Also, I respect your perspective on selling bulls. I'm not willing to sully my name on poor quality either, however there are some cattlemen around me who would improve their herd by using my less desirable bulls. I just won't advertise them heavily. My "good stuff" will make it to the local registered sale though.
<snip>

If he's running out of pasture, he can keep more animals if he keeps the heifers and sells the cows! While growing animals need more feed per pound of live weight than a mature cow, they need less overall feed. So, maybe instead of him selling (say) a dozen heifers he could sell 7-9 cows and keep the dozen heifers.

That's something some guys think about ... and some guys don't.

Oh, and also, if you decide to take a stab at putting embryos in, I'll recommend you find someone who is a certified embryologist to lessen your risk.

Good luck to you!

 

[LittleValleyFarm]

I am located in western North Carolina in the rolling hills between Winston Salem and Boone. I would guesstimate that they are 1,000 lbs right now at about 21 months old. They are around 3 months bred, so due in December. They have not had a pelvic measurement, but they are bred to calving ease bulls.
Walnut Crest- I have my suspicions that he is just really attached to some of his old girls and he trusts them to keep producing. He has them comfortable with his operation and he doesn't want to put in the time to closely watch heifers at calving time. You're right about the numbers game though. Some people are just willing to under manage a little in order to do it the way that pleases them. I'm not going to put them down though because I fully expect to be that way when I'm his age!

 

[SPH]

:clap:

My opinion may be different from many others here, but that ain't gonna stop me from giving it!

If I'm in your shoes, I would try to buy the best (!) proven cows of 4-7 years of age (you'll get a better price on a cow who's around 6-7 than 3-4 due to age) who is confirmed bred to the bull(s) you want. This will improve the odds that you'll not have any calving problems. Starting with a small registered herd, the last thing you want to do is to lose a bred heifer to a calving problem her first go-round.

And, so, to these cows ... you want animals who were raised as similar to your approach as possible ... or harsher. You do not want to buy animals from someone who really babies his animals unless you're prepared to do the same.

Next, as to price, it's more important that you get the right genetics than the price you pay for them. When I first went shopping for cattle, I had a range of what I wanted to pay for specific animals and I stayed in my budget ... however, it was more important to me to get what I wanted to start with and to maintain good relationships with those with whom I was buying than it was to talk them down to their bottom dollar. Most (but not all) of the foundational animals I've purchased, I paid the price they were offered at. If you're insistent on getting these two particular heifers, $2500 is not even close to being too much for heifers of the highest quality. But, again, it depends on what you'er trying to do... It may be worth asking if he'd consider selling you the dams to these two heifers rather than the heifers themselves ... or ... maybe find someone who sexes embryos in utero when they're doing preg checks and buy proven cows who are carrying heifer embryos. I've done that before with great success.

Lastly, ALL regsistered breeders need to have a very sharp knife. Not all registered bulls are worth selling as breeding stock. I've been staring at a yearling bull I could sell as a breeder to someone, but he needs knife as he's not quite of the quality I want to have my named tied to. Now, this yearling of mine would improve many people's herds, he's not up to my standards. I don't raise registered Angus or Sim-Angus, but, on behalf of those who do, please have a sharp knife.

We may not breed the same color of animals but I couldn't agree more with what you said! :clap: The last time we needed to add some more females to the herd outside of our own replacements we've done exactly that, targeted programs we have interest in their genetics and similar management style and looked for either bred heifers (doing your research on them of course) or bred females just about to enter or currently are in their prime years. Especially with the cows that have already had a couple calves you take a little of the guesswork out of things that you have with heifers. There is still nothing wrong with buying heifers too, especially if you go the registered route there should be some performance data on the dam and sire to get an idea of how she is bred and in the OP's case if his kid's are of showing age a heifer serves more than 1 purpose.

As to the part about the bulls that is another area I have gone rounds on this board and others on debating what is acceptable and glad to see someone else here that thinks the same way. As a registered purebred breeder we have the same thought as you, don't want our name tied to a bull that is not up to standards. Some guys have argued with me that as long as you can make a buck off keeping a bull intact they don't see an issue with it but I think that is a poor philosophy to have as you should also have a responsibility to not allow poor performing cattle reproduce regardless if its someone else's problem now and not yours. That's a good rule of thumb to use, if you wouldn't use that bull yourself then why should someone else? I think its a poor reflection not only on your own program but your breed as well to allow a bull that does not meet your standards to remain intact, steer him and send him off to the feed lot.