Questions about clover

[ClinchValley86]

For more info concerning alfalfa and or Lucerne, you might have some luck over on haytalk.com They grow lots of it for hay production. They love their monoculture stands and herbicides over there. But could be very informative none the less.

 

[Chapin81]

It usually growing in monoculture form. That leaves it susceptible to all kinds of problems, bugs, disease, etc... plus when grasses, forbs, and weeds get a foothold, it's not as valuable hay anymore. And the pure stand is a mixed stand. Thr alfalfa works itself out of the equation I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Rest periods for me range from 30 to 90 days. I've heard of people grazing alfalfa/grass fields for 20+ years.

Alfalfa is a hi input forage for hay production. Pretty sure it's cut every 30 days or so. Lots of fertilizer used.

If you are only on it for a day or two, then get of and let it regrow, it should do decent. I would establish it with other stuff. Some grasses and forms to compliment it. Give you a better hedge against your weather that way.

I'm sure youre going to make sure your soil is up to snuff?

Thank you clarifying, the plan is soil test, once I figure out what my situation is apply what's needed and start laying down seed. What I will do is what some of you mention set aside some test areas and monitor growth and see how it works itself with other grasses. I was also thinking of waiting to let it seed and then graze. My only problem which isn't a big deal is that at that point the other grasses would become very mature and the girls won't want to eat it much. But I figure if they are hungry they will have to eat it. This is definitely going to be a learning experience for me. Hopefully it works out. Also I failed to mention, I don't use fertilizers and I stopped using herbicides 3 years ago. Since we graze the herd in a tight enough space our cow pies aren't too far from each other as well and get very good trampling. the good news is we now have earthworms, very few weeds as well. I'm still waiting for a dung beetle to appear. thanks for sharing what you know.

 

[Chapin81]

Chapin81> I just pulled some info up on wwwnoble.org which I think would be available to you. A problem you will have with P & K
deficient soil is the legume can require 10-15 lbs to the acre to supply its own use and to set (or put) nitrogen into the soil.
Also on a scale of say 1 to 10 N will move at 10 with K at a 3 or so and P at a 1 through the soil. As slow as the P & K move through
the soil it is not economical to attempt to bring those to an acceptable level in one or two years but to a apply what a soil test indicates
for that particular area for the year. Another thing to remember is lets say you do plant a legume (clover or ?) you will find that as the
legume sets more nitrogen (it's the plant that sets the nitrogen not the soil) it will favor the growth of nitrogen intensive grasses to the point
they will smother the legumes as the cattle will keep the legumes grazed beyond the optimum growth point. This puts you in a grass management
situation which can be another can of worms! Normally it is best not to graze more than 5 days in an area to prevent regrazing, after which
you would allow it to grow to a point short of setting a seed head and graze again. I was glad to hear the lights went on at the mention of
phosphorus. Cattle traders and sale barn jockeys aside it is the grass and forage that pays the bills and what better way than a cow to get it
to market !? An aside, I sort of envy you as you have the opportunity to be a pioneer in the application of the cattle business down there.

Thanks for the info LVR

 

[ClinchValley86]

Thank you clarifying, the plan is soil test, once I figure out what my situation is apply what's needed and start laying down seed. What I will do is what some of you mention set aside some test areas and monitor growth and see how it works itself with other grasses. I was also thinking of waiting to let it seed and then graze. My only problem which isn't a big deal is that at that point the other grasses would become very mature and the girls won't want to eat it much. But I figure if they are hungry they will have to eat it. This is definitely going to be a learning experience for me. Hopefully it works out. Also I failed to mention, I don't use fertilizers and I stopped using herbicides 3 years ago. Since we graze the herd in a tight enough space our cow pies aren't too far from each other as well and get very good trampling. the good news is we now have earthworms, very few weeds as well. I'm still waiting for a dung beetle to appear. thanks for sharing what you know.

That's awesome you graze and manage soil ike that. We've been doing it a handful of years too, results have been GREAT. This will be out 4th or 5th year of no fertilize nor ant chemicals. I import hat and use for my fertilizer indeavors.

The best thing I have learned is to manage for what you do want, not for what you don't want (weeds, etc.). I'm glad to know there's another holistic minded operator/producer/nut on the board!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne I'm so sorry for your loss having a loved one not being around anymore is never easy. Always keep them in our memories.

when you mention cool wet mornings can turn deadly at what stage is clover in, I'm thinking the more mature the plant the less protein? Less likely for bloat? Am I wrong?

I rotational graze. They get a paddock for 3 to 5 days. The goal is to never over graze and never let the fields head out. In the early spring grazing, we can't keep up with growth, so we hay some of our paddocks.
In the fall, we have very heavy dew, I have seen a whole herd bloat from some stray Alfalfa patches left over from the paddock being a hay field. I have never seen that with clover, but you would if it was straight clover field.
Generally, around here, only dairymen plant Alfalfa. Very expensive crop, but you can hay it almost every 30+ days ( 4 cuttings - usually green chopped). They will get super high protein levels for their dairy cows. Way more expense and too high protein for beef herds.