question on behavior training

[Anonymous]

My 16 mo. old holstein always let me rub and pull her teats. About a month ago she started getting bugged by it (pawing slightly with the front leg). I have still kept up with it as I know I have to. She is now starting to kick out a leg or charge the pygmy goat (I do this when she is at the feed bin)We breed her on Sat., she will be a milker, so I don't want to end up with a fiasco next Aug. She is way gentle in all other ways and responds well to the principles in Running Arrow Bill's paper. Any ideas or advice about what has worked for you over the years? I know many of you are running beef cattle, but experience with growing up around cattle is still worth its weight in gold. Thx. (PS She's loving her pumpkin a day...It's how I'm going to lure her into the trailer. She does well going up a ramp, but balks at step ups).

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[Anonymous]

Thanks for positive comment about my Behavior Training Pamphlet!

On your Holstein--don't know hardly anything about milch cows. However, bovines are usually bovines.

My first suspicion is that she has one or more sore teats or udder...leading to sensitivity to handling her. Otherwise, I would generally feel an animal would become MORE tolerant with handling over time.

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[Anonymous]

Her teats are fine. I am noticing that she tolerates it more when I trick her, i.e. rub her belly then work my way back to her teats (maybe she thinks my hands are cold ha, ha). I just have heard that cows have to be used to being pulled on or they will REALLY balk. Thanks again

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[Anonymous]

>She is telling you something "leave the tits alone until the milk is in them" which is after the calf is born. My 16 mo. old holstein always let
> me rub and pull her teats. About a
> month ago she started getting
> bugged by it (pawing slightly with
> the front leg). I have still kept
> up with it as I know I have to.
> She is now starting to kick out a
> leg or charge the pygmy goat (I do
> this when she is at the feed
> bin)We breed her on Sat., she will
> be a milker, so I don't want to
> end up with a fiasco next Aug. She
> is way gentle in all other ways
> and responds well to the
> principles in Running Arrow Bill's
> paper. Any ideas or advice about
> what has worked for you over the
> years? I know many of you are
> running beef cattle, but
> experience with growing up around
> cattle is still worth its weight
> in gold. Thx. (PS She's loving her
> pumpkin a day...It's how I'm going
> to lure her into the trailer. She
> does well going up a ramp, but
> balks at step ups).



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[Anonymous]

I don't agree because that is part of the training process.When we trained dairy goats we never let the kid suck as they will learn the difference. she is right to touch, brush,and handle all over.I would go a step further and teach clipping the bag area as this is great to keep away unwaunted hair etc. also haltering, leading its all training .When your face is close to the backside of a cow you are a marked target. you need to feel safe and trust the animal or its of no use keeping them for milk. Cindy

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[Anonymous]

Number one, unless you've milked a cow you may be "pulling" too hard. Just gripping and sort of massaging them will serve the same purpose. If you abruptly reach and grab you may be startling her. She could be just being an ornery teenager. Keep working with her, gently. She'll come around, especially when she realizes it doesn't do any good for her to fight it.

dun

> My 16 mo. old holstein always let
> me rub and pull her teats. About a
> month ago she started getting
> bugged by it (pawing slightly with
> the front leg). I have still kept
> up with it as I know I have to.
> She is now starting to kick out a
> leg or charge the pygmy goat (I do
> this when she is at the feed
> bin)We breed her on Sat., she will
> be a milker, so I don't want to
> end up with a fiasco next Aug. She
> is way gentle in all other ways
> and responds well to the
> principles in Running Arrow Bill's
> paper. Any ideas or advice about
> what has worked for you over the
> years? I know many of you are
> running beef cattle, but
> experience with growing up around
> cattle is still worth its weight
> in gold. Thx. (PS She's loving her
> pumpkin a day...It's how I'm going
> to lure her into the trailer. She
> does well going up a ramp, but
> balks at step ups).

 

[Anonymous]

We have a young holstein cow that I "trained" in a day we've always been able to walk up to her and pet her and this summer I just kept pestering her until I could get to milking. It just took me persistance and she eventually took me on as a calf to say and let me walk up and milk a glass or two whenever we wanted it. (fresh milk homemade ice cream is hard to beat!!) Jake

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[Anonymous]

Maybe it was in one of the comments, but the old practice was always to give a cow something to eat while you're milking her. Make sure her teats aren't cracked and watch your fingernails. Finally, it's always a good thing to have a pair of kickers hanging on the wall, for those "bad milk days."

Craig-TX

 

[Anonymous]

>Can't comment on goats but I've milked a lot of cows both by hand in the pasture and machine in the barn before I got into beef. Dairy heifers can be conditioned (trained) for handling by touching their rump, back, shoulders neck, chin etc. but leave the undeveloped udder alone. She can't say "I feel uncomfortable when you touch me there" so she says it the only way she knows how, by giving you a swat. After the calf is born a heifer is in more of a mood to nurture and therefore more receptive to handling of the udder. If you start pulling on the teats of an undeveloped heifer she could come into milk with a blind quarter or worse provide an opening for systemic infection. An animals disposition as a calf has no reflection on it,s disposition at milking. They could be docile to handle but very tender on the udder and teats or be a bossy brute in the barn or paddock and become a real doll at milking time. You don't know until after they have calved I don't agree because that is part
> of the training process.When we
> trained dairy goats we never let
> the kid suck as they will learn
> the difference. she is right to
> touch, brush,and handle all over.I
> would go a step further and teach
> clipping the bag area as this is
> great to keep away unwaunted hair
> etc. also haltering, leading its
> all training .When your face is
> close to the backside of a cow you
> are a marked target. you need to
> feel safe and trust the animal or
> its of no use keeping them for
> milk. Cindy



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[Anonymous]

Thamks again guys, She isn't evn bred yet (that happens Sat). I think I have enough info. now. I was going on what I had heard which is I need to gently, rubbing my hand over her teats, give them a gentle tug as part of my daily interaction with her if I'm ever going to milk her. She is the friendliest, docile, licky,halter broke, social gal in the world. I'll just keep interacting with her as usual and trust that when the calf is born and while she is eating her grain, she won't balk too much at me milking her.

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[Anonymous]

Really learn something new every day..I lived next to a dairy cattle ranch but we didn't see how they trained because they milked 3-4 am and we wern't up at that time.I didn't know you could bring them into milk just by touching them.I try to handle all my beef calves only to keep them gentel and safe to be arround It seems to work.. Thanks for the lesson...Cindy

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