Question for the Hereford Historians

[WichitaLineMan]

I was perusing some Old Hereford Journals this weekend (circa 1978), and was noting that Line One was becoming VERY popular at this time in the "frame race". In looking at a lot of pedigrees I have a few questions.

Coopers and Holdens used to have a joint sale. There are a lot of cattle with HH (Holden Herefords) and CL 1 (Cooper Herefords) but what was CH? It seems that it was Cooper Herefords. The thing that puzzles me is that it seems like I have seen cattle from the same time period with all three prefixes. Did Coopers-Holdens ever run a joint cowherd in addition to their individual herds or jointly own cattle/bulls? Also the prefix PW is in a lot of Coopers cattle and I read an ad on a PW prefix bull that said he was the top ratioing calf in the Cooper herd. Did Coopers ever us the PW prefix?

Also neat to note that alot of the pedigrees of bulls (Coopers and Holdens) in the early 70s late sixties had L12 and L6. I even saw a Holden bull with Straight Canadian dam.

Also noted that as late as the late 70s Miles City was still selling L12 bulls. When did they end L12? Some of the L12 bulls really looked useful to me.

Thanks!

 

[Australian]

Is there any herds in the US or Canada with solely English bloodlines? Here in Australia it would be very hard to find any. I did read somewhere ( A Hereford Journal I think) that there isn't many herds even in England that now have no outside influence, thats rather sad that a portion of ones herd couldn't have been kept as pure as possible to maintain bloodlines.

 

[capt]

I believe the PW prefix was used by Pruett-Wray in Arizona. I don't know if Coopers and Holdens ever ran a herd together or not but they have purchased bulls from one another for years. It would be very intersting to hear from anyone with more knowledge about the various lines at Miles City and when they were disbanded and such. It seems to me that one of the lines was sent to florida to the research station there to compare and contrast different environments, but I don't know if it was one line or a combination. Anyone else care to share some history?

capt

 

[Julian]

Probably the most pure (closed genetically from outside influences) Herefords in America may be Jim Lent's Anxiety 4th Herefords. They have been a closed herd since Geugell & Simpson started the herd and imported Anxiety 4th. Jim lives in Oklahoma.

 

[BC]

You can go to Cooper Herefords website for more on the history.

www.cooperherefords.com

 

[Ned Jr.]

 

[Ned Jr.]

 

[BC]

Thanks Ned for a very informative history lesson.

 

[Ned Jr.]

 

[WichitaLineMan]

This isn't the best example but I turned to it almost immediately in the 1978 Herd Bull Edition.

Note on the topline how an HH Advance bred to a C1 Dominette and the calf (famous one) has a CH prefix, then when the bull CH Domino 053 is bred to a CL 1 Dominette cow the offspring again has a CH prefix. Just curious about the CH prefix as opposed to CL 1 and HH and the fact that they were intermingled.

Also note the Canadian breeding on the bottom line. I saw another ad (I'll try to find later) where the cow on the bottom was STRAIGHT Canadian bloodlines.

Interesting.

I guess 1976 makes sense for the L12 line. I saw a sale ad for the Livestock Research Station's 1978 sale and it listed L12 bulls for sale.

 

[Frankie]

Yes, Ned, thank you. Interesting reading.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'm breeding my Lad daughters back to 8020-not sure if it's wise or not but I know what both sides of the equation will do.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

>>You can go to Cooper Herefords website for more on the history. <<

Yeah, that's just a treasure trove of information! Do people even think before they post?

 

[WichitaLineMan]

>>Probably the most pure (closed genetically from outside influences) Herefords in America may be Jim Lent's Anxiety 4th Herefords. They have been a closed herd since Geugell & Simpson started the herd and imported Anxiety 4th. Jim lives in Oklahoma.<<

What does this have to do with the question I asked?

I live pretty close to Jim. I have talked with him and seen his cattle. Interesting but breeding cattle to calve at 3 is not my cup of tea.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Here is a copy of an ad that shows a bull with a PW prefix PW 1 Domino 6008. And the ad says "Top indexing calf in Jack Cooper's 1966 calf crop". That is why I was wondering about the PW prefix on Cooper raised cattle.

Not my best scan job!

 

[CPL]

I'm breeding my Lad daughters back to 8020-not sure if it's wise or not but I know what both sides of the equation will do.

PLEASE let us know how that works out for you.

 

[alexfarms]

Here is a copy of an ad that shows a bull with a PW prefix PW 1 Domino 6008. And the ad says "Top indexing calf in Jack Cooper's 1966 calf crop". That is why I was wondering about the PW prefix on Cooper raised cattle.

Not my best scan job!

Pat Wilson, Inc. at Frostproof, FL uses the PW prefix and has used some Cooper/Holden L1 bulls. I did some searching on the AHA website and I don't see any connection between the 6008 and Wilsons, so in this case that probably isn't it. Wilson used the Line 1 bulls as an outcross to his mostly Victor herd. He would bring one in occassionally and dilute his genetics into the Victors.

 

[Julian]

>>Probably the most pure (closed genetically from outside influences) Herefords in America may be Jim Lent's Anxiety 4th Herefords. They have been a closed herd since Geugell & Simpson started the herd and imported Anxiety 4th. Jim lives in Oklahoma.<<

What does this have to do with the question I asked?

It doesn't have anything to do with the questin you asked. It is in reference to the second post of this thread. The one made by Australian.

 

[rocket2222]

Here is a copy of an ad that shows a bull with a PW prefix PW 1 Domino 6008. And the ad says "Top indexing calf in Jack Cooper's 1966 calf crop". That is why I was wondering about the PW prefix on Cooper raised cattle.

Not my best scan job!

PRUETT-WRAY might be a lead for you on the PW prefix :?:

 

[andybob]

Is there any herds in the US or Canada with solely English bloodlines? Here in Australia it would be very hard to find any. I did read somewhere ( A Hereford Journal I think) that there isn't many herds even in England that now have no outside influence, thats rather sad that a portion of ones herd couldn't have been kept as pure as possible to maintain bloodlines.

Australian, there are only 670 "native" or "heritage" Hereford in the UK (not counting this years registrations) we run 140 of these, my employer is enthusiastic in his protecting the lines of these as well as native Aberdeen Angus and rare sheep and pig breeds.