question about "Precision" bloodlines.

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farmerD44

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I have read alot on this board lately about Precision blooded animals having fertility problems. So should all sires with precision bloodlines be avoided? or is it just direct use of 1680 that is a problem???????? Are the fertility issues just with the bulls or with the hiefers/cows also???????

Dan.
 
Fertility isn't usually something that I know of that only follows one sex or the other regarding a specific bloodline. In the Precision case there was a lack of testicles to begin with on 1680, and it has passed on to SOME of his sons and daughters not neccesarily all.

For that reason, you couldn't give me a Precision line bull for that reason. We never know when those "bad" genes might rear their head again.
 
we have a reasonable amount of Precision in our herd and have no scrotal problems. his EPD is almost a -1.0 which is not normally a problem unless you have cows that produce borderline scrotal bulls already. if your bulls average 36 cm when a 0.00 SC EPD bull is used, you should get bull calves that average around 35cm. with the BSE minimum at 30 cm and most poeple wanting 32-34, there should be no impact.

some say they want all the scrotal they can get, but some studies show a reduction in proper morphology with over sized scrotal circ.

the way we look at it, if you have SC problems, stay away from him. if SC isnt a problem, Precision wont hurt for one generation anyway.
 
some studies show a reduction in proper morphology with over sized scrotal circ.
I have never heard that. I would like to read anything you have on it. I was always told the bigger the better as long as they don't step on them.
 
Extreme cases of large SC will usually mean the bull won't test. Up to 40cm + than when the problem usually come

Visit with someone who collects semen from these great ones, they will tell you fertility is no better than it needs to be. Secondly, reports on females is that they haven't been very strong either.

Like l said some bull haven't presented a problem.

It's amazing to me that there are folks who don't believe scrotal EPD's that are considerably under average are a problem. I am shooting for my bulls to average 35-36cm. So to use a bull who is a major negativeis one thing but IF that son doesn't have at least 34cm, he will be a tough sell. I can't afford to take that chance.
Scrotal development is probably in the top 3 for criteria. This is for commercial guys, if you happen to have a breeder bull then he needs to measure at least 36cm at 1 year of age.
 
Aero said:
we have a reasonable amount of Precision in our herd and have no scrotal problems. his EPD is almost a -1.0 which is not normally a problem unless you have cows that produce borderline scrotal bulls already. if your bulls average 36 cm when a 0.00 SC EPD bull is used, you should get bull calves that average around 35cm. with the BSE minimum at 30 cm and most poeple wanting 32-34, there should be no impact.

some say they want all the scrotal they can get, but some studies show a reduction in proper morphology with over sized scrotal circ.

Aero,

I am amazed that your customers "want" 32 to 34 cm. We see buyer resistance starting at about 34 cm. Our veterinary is reluctant to try and get a sample unless they measure 32 cm minimum, especially if they are over 12 months of age.

Scrotal circumference is a highly heritable trait so using sires that have high sc EPDs will make a significant difference in the sc of the bulls we sell. As a breeder I am very reluctant to use a bull that isn't at least 36 cm at a year, I would prefer them to be 38 or 39 cm. as for EPDs I would NEVER use a bull with a minus EPD for scrotal and I am reluctant to use a bull with an sc EPD of less than +.5, I prefer them to be at least +1.

There is little to fear with sc becoming too large by breeding and selection. You will find an occassional bull that is abnormally large and suffers from morphology problems but these are bulls not the result of selecting for large sc, they are just abnormal.

Its about more than selling bulls too. SC of a bull is correlated with fertility in his daughters.
 
seth":1h1r7ud4 said:
Aero,

I am amazed that your customers "want" 32 to 34 cm.

you are correct; i meant that is where the minimum range for most people start. sorry for the confusion.
 
seth":kcmk8b83 said:
Its about more than selling bulls too. SC of a bull is correlated with fertility in his daughters.
seth:

i have read a few articles that correlate circumference to early puberty. the latest ones i have read, equate each cm with 1-2 days earlier maturity.

so if you get a bull that is 5 cm larger, the females might start cycling a week earlier... this reasoning doesnt hold much water with me. the circumference makes good sense and i agree with much that you say.
 

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