PW Victor Boomer

[El_Putzo]

Just curious if those of you who have used, or are planning on using, Victor Boomer have noticed the rather large change in CED and BW. I thought it was very interesting how I had heard rumors on this board leading me to believe that the current numbers are closer to correct. I am actually quite glad I took those rumors to heart when picking an AI sire for my heifers. Not saying that he is a complete trainwreck, only that in going from a 1.1 to a -7.3 on CED in one calving season has got to indicate lots of calving difficulty, or at least in my feable little mind. I have been looking at some numbers on potential heifers that I may buy and the ones sired by Victor Boomer have been in the 85-100lb actual BW range. Anyone want to share some personal experieces with Victor Boomer births? I'd like to hear both good and bad.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... F&9=5C5F5B

 

[Kent]

This is my first post, but I have lurked here for quite some time. I am a breeder of Hereford and Hereford-cross cattle in North Georgia. My wife and I have been in the business (not my full-time job) for 11 years now, and I have been around Herefords since my Dad bought his first set of polled heifers in 1977. I figured this would be as good a place as any to make my first post.

I have not used Victor Boomer directly, but have used his daddy a good bit, and have a son of 46B in service now. One thing I have noticed about Boomer 46B is the vast difference between his CED and his MCE numbers. He is somewhere around -5.7 on CED, but +7.3 on MCE with Trait Leader status. So, while not a good choice for use on heifers, his daughters are good first calvers even though they may have had above average BW's.

Victor Boomer has only 33 daughters so far as he flew under the radar for a long time. Now that he has been "discovered", he will begin to have more daughters with calves reported. He already has that "negative CED to positive MCE" tendency that his daddy has, and it will be interesting to see if he ends up somewhere near the same numbers as 46B as time goes on.

For all the understandable concern with using Victor Boomer on heifers, I would not hesitate to purchase his daughters, even with BW's in the 90-pound range. Bred to a real heifer bull, they should do fine, and should make good cows. Another thing to consider is that he is less than 1 pound above breed average for BW, but 37 and 55 pounds above average for WW and YW, respectively, albeit with lower accuracies than his BW EPD. I doubt that those two numbers would fall significantly at this point, with his WW accuracy at .67. With his milk and carcass numbers, I think he is a good bull to try. I know his daddy has been good to my herd, with some of the most beautiful heifers I have seen around here.

 

[certherfbeef]

Kent,
I used a Mohican bred 46B son for a year. All the calves averaged 90-100 lbs and carried excessive white. Now that those daughters are in production with their first calves...only one out of more than 30 is still here. They just would not milk and didn't seen to give a hoot if they knew where their calves were or not.

But, the group was bred to numerous calving ease bulls and those heifers had 70-80 lb calves.

I agree when you say the the Victor Boomer heifers would calve ok if mated correctally. Just a little learly about the milk thing.
And, I also understand that there are alot of things that factor into a heifer not milking...but the others sired by the other bull, managed the same are raising some real dandy calves.

 

[bigbull338]

i will tell you this.dont ever use a herefod or any bull that will breed the milk out of the calves.like cert says if they dont milk or care bout calves. then they end up in the cull pen. scott

 

[1848]

Any bull which gains popularity rapidly based on some of his offspring getting "noticed" will have EPD's that change significantly in a short period time. The bull will see use in herds all across the country and in different envirinments and management conditions. In addition, the bull "will" be used in that large group of "fed out" show heifers (1/2 the semen sales). Show cattle are usually bred AI to popular sires, and the owners will do what it takes to get an advantage or put down a popular or marketable calf. What they see on paper is a heifer BW..what they get can be intirely different due to much of the data coming from different management conditions.

This is the "process" of proving a bull (animal) for accuracy. I think if you go back and read Dun's initial comment on the "Money Spent on Females Thread" it answers some question about why we might see such a difference in an animals performance despite it's EPD's. It is common knowlege that Canadian cattle will tend to have larger calves at birth (at least with Herefords), then say the Victor lines in the Southern US, but based on a 2.0 EPD of that Canadian animal (which may have been a 90lb average calf in that herd), breeders feel that 2.0 from Canada should be just as safe on heifers as a 2.0 from Georgia...not neceassarly so! EPD's reflect data which is "herd" based, until an animal is exposed/used to herds all over the nation. Of course there is accuracy carry over in EPD's from animals in their line, but the individul animal must also be proven.

Many, many popular champions have failed the test over time, and have disappeared from the ranks due to abuse and improper breeding selections. When it comes to BW EPD's these animals will almost always loose due to immeadiate popularity in the show circut. Large operations with big numbers of animals are now staying ahead of the game by moderating their show bulls EPD's up front by getting allot of EPD data on the bull from AI'ing pasture cows, and the lighter calvers in their herds. This still won't change the fact the popularity will drive their use in the show circut and poorly planned breedings and large calves will continue. PW's WW and YW numbers were placed in high accuarcy up front (within the few herds that used him at the time) before he gained such status, so they won't see much change, but the BW and Milk #'s will se moderate adjustment over time as they are now being reflected from across the nation.

Kent makes some good points., and you need to look at the big picture when choosing bulls and making breeding decisions. PW Victor works for some and not others. He can throw white! He does go back to Canadian lines. What kind of programs and breeding matings was he being used in? These are all things that need to be considered and not just EPD numbers

 

[Campground Cattle]

This is my first post, but I have lurked here for quite some time. I am a breeder of Hereford and Hereford-cross cattle in North Georgia. My wife and I have been in the business (not my full-time job) for 11 years now, and I have been around Herefords since my Dad bought his first set of polled heifers in 1977. I figured this would be as good a place as any to make my first post.

I have not used Victor Boomer directly, but have used his daddy a good bit, and have a son of 46B in service now. One thing I have noticed about Boomer 46B is the vast difference between his CED and his MCE numbers. He is somewhere around -5.7 on CED, but +7.3 on MCE with Trait Leader status. So, while not a good choice for use on heifers, his daughters are good first calvers even though they may have had above average BW's.

Victor Boomer has only 33 daughters so far as he flew under the radar for a long time. Now that he has been "discovered", he will begin to have more daughters with calves reported. He already has that "negative CED to positive MCE" tendency that his daddy has, and it will be interesting to see if he ends up somewhere near the same numbers as 46B as time goes on.

For all the understandable concern with using Victor Boomer on heifers, I would not hesitate to purchase his daughters, even with BW's in the 90-pound range. Bred to a real heifer bull, they should do fine, and should make good cows. Another thing to consider is that he is less than 1 pound above breed average for BW, but 37 and 55 pounds above average for WW and YW, respectively, albeit with lower accuracies than his BW EPD. I doubt that those two numbers would fall significantly at this point, with his WW accuracy at .67. With his milk and carcass numbers, I think he is a good bull to try. I know his daddy has been good to my herd, with some of the most beautiful heifers I have seen around here.

The best buy on the Market today is Vindicator or Braxton Giant 1 through Reed, both are proven low birth weight.
IMO

 

[1848]

Camp is right, and sooner or later some of you purebred breeders will realize this! His EPD's probably hold more to true than most popular sires with his accuaracies. Braxton Giant 1 is an oustanding bull, and is a great bull for low birthweights! His daughters also work, and many have proved themselves as DOD's. Gerber used him with great sucess stating he never had a braxton heifer calf that didn't make a good cow. If you are looking for good replacement daughters and not always just caught up in what numbers say on paper, he is one you should try!

Figured I'd back you up on this Camp! ;-)

 

[Kent]

I concur. Boomer is the only polled bull I have used on my cows, which are mainly Explosion and Line One bloodlines. He has been a good one, though. Never used any of his sons except the one I raised that is in use now. I would personally not stray too far from the horned herefords in a commercial operation, but that is just my humble opinion. There are a lot of good polled cattle out there, too.

 

[bigbull338]

if you want to use the dehorners an horn weights go horned herefords. if not go with the polled herefords. but if you study the young bulls in both horned an poilled. the bloodlines are mixed in both. horned an polled in their pedagree.line1 beau donald mark donald an vindacator. scott

 

[Kent]

There are of course a few breeders of these lines of cattle who use an outcross bull from time to time, even a polled one if he meets their needs. I don't have a problem with that. It's just good animal husbandry. However, the use of such a bull is only meant to complement the quality animals already in the line and add or correct a trait that needs correcting. That's why I have used the Boomer bull. He is a trait leader in the areas I needed to work on in my heifers, and he sires beautiful females to look at, which doesn't hurt at sale time. If a linebreeder carries outcrossing any further without two to four generations of backcrossing to his line, he is ruining years and years of work.

Let me clarify that statement. He may indeed have high performing cattle, sons that are topping bull tests, and females that milk better than any he's ever had. But it will be because he is cashing in that built-up vigor that comes from linebreeding. That vigor is meant to be a benefit to his bull customers. That is one of the biggest advantages of linebreeding. That is also why I carefully study pedigrees of any linebred bulls I buy, to make sure there is not much outcrossing, or just buy from breeders I know personally who don't outcross, such as Holden, Debter, Cooper, Pedretti.

BTW, I breed the Herefords to supply females for my commercial herd, which is bred to black angus bulls, so I don't have to dehorn anything but the purebred hereford heifers. I take a spoon dehorner to them the day they are born as I am tattooing and tagging, and never have to worry about horns again.

 

[Aaron]

certherfbeef, I have been breeding Herefords for a number of years as well, but have never understood the 'excessive white' being a factor that displeased some breeders. Why do many show/elite breeders have such a distaste for whitenecks? My dad used to tell me how no one would buy a calf in the 80's if it didn't have a white neck. Wondering where this fear to too much white came from?