putting a $ on agression

[Howdyjabo]

any more years behind me and I'll be too decripid to be saying much of anything.can't touch me on not having the background to know what I speak of. Especially when I said it was HERE.

Can't help what I am seeing day in and day out--- red calves have a defenite trend towards being obstinant and high headed.
Also others(IN MY AREA) that do the same type things that I do with cattle also agree that they are seeing it too.

I can also tell you consistant traits that I see with Holstiens, Chars/ Char crosses/ Herefords/Brahmans/ Blacks/ Baldies/ even had enough Belted Galloways come thru here to have a feel for their general tendancy too.

Why so paranoid???? If I had cattle I'd like to know what backgrounders and feedlots thought about them in GENERAL.
Ever wonder why reds are discounted at sales??? I know why my buyer discounts them-- Its cause I told him to.

There is a genetisist friend of mine that is actually going to do some research on color/attitude traits in dogs(as a personal sideline to a dog research program she works on)-- and she has also heard from cattlemen when she mentions their suspisions about dogs that they have the same suspisions about red cattle. now Shes curious about a general
red gene/temperment gene.

So its just not me.......
As an aside my favorite cow(including general temperment) is an eared red brindle.And yes I know they throw red calves..
When I mentioned the discrepency to the genetisist she wasn't the least bit surprised -- something to do with brindles genes being seperate from red-- I didn't understand it then,so I can't explain it-- just thought her reaction was kinda interesting.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

One thing you can bet is im not paranoid. and alway wanting too learn more. more often than not the brindle as you call them are of the f1 persuasion and they diffinitly can be tempermentle but the more generations of hereford infusion in that animal the better the temperment of the offspring. you are talking more of differant breeds of cattle and their temperment than the color itself. you walk into a pen with a braford are black brangus i guarantee you couldnt tell much differance in eithers temperment

 

[Howdyjabo]

Nope- I'm talking color
Again "around here".

I brought up the Brindle-- because it didn't fit with what I was seeing with reds.

I don't worry about nervous cattle-- i can settle them fairly quickly.I don't discount eared cattle.Unless they are blowing steam coming thru the sales-- then the buyer is supposed to leave it alone.

Now a red eared calf(non brindle) is gonna get discounted big or me and my buyer are gonna have words.But I don't discount Gerts-they rarely cause me any problems.
The other one that gets discounted big is Charlois/eared crosses.
they aren't worth dealing with unless I make good money off them.

Keep in mind that animals don't display their true temperment till weaned and matured some.AND they are moved from their comforting home territory. So I see things--- that are not what the cow/calf person usually does with the same animal.

 

[MikeC]

they aren't worth dealing with unless I make good money off them.

UNDERSTATEMENT??????????????????????

Watch Alacowman, looks like you're dealing with a slippery one here. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Howdyjabo]

Mike-- not sure how to take your post.I'm leaning towards it being positive but..........

Do the question marks mean that you doubt its an Understatement? or that you agree?

And around here to call someone "slippery" is an insult--- I don't think I have prevaracated about anything-quite the opposite.

 

[MikeC]

Mike-- not sure how to take your post.I'm leaning towards it being positive but..........

Do the question marks mean that you doubt its an Understatement? or that you agree?

And around here to call someone "slippery" is an insult--- I don't think I have prevaracated about anything-quite the opposite.

No insult meant or implied. But."they aren't worth dealing with unless I make good money off them", pretty much goes for all of them, eh? Oh, I agree alright. I agree.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Nope- I'm talking color
Again "around here".

I brought up the Brindle-- because it didn't fit with what I was seeing with reds.

I don't worry about nervous cattle-- i can settle them fairly quickly.I don't discount eared cattle.Unless they are blowing steam coming thru the sales-- then the buyer is supposed to leave it alone.

Now a red eared calf(non brindle) is gonna get discounted big or me and my buyer are gonna have words.But I don't discount Gerts-they rarely cause me any problems.
The other one that gets discounted big is Charlois/eared crosses.
they aren't worth dealing with unless I make good money off them.

Keep in mind that animals don't display their true temperment till weaned and matured some.AND they are moved from their comforting home territory. So I see things--- that are not what the cow/calf person usually does with the same animal.

Well let me refresh my memory aint you the new owner of the sale barn around blount co. ala. if so no dought you see animals in a differant light with a bunch of under payed inexperainced kids yelling and beating those cattle.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Sadly for you I am bored to death stuck in the house rehabilitating-- normally I'd just say sionora and go about my business instead of wasteing time around people like you.
But I'm so bored a little guaranteed EASY mental sparing sounds like fun.
So bring it on big boy

Just so the playing field is even---

I have been preconditoning for feedlots and grazers (along with some backgrounding of my own--when I had the capitol) for 25 yrs. I started with rented pastures with little sound fencing and catch pens that idiots set up--- if there were any catch pens at all.
I did it all with dogs to get by-- and packed kids on my back while getting it done.
Things are better now- bought my own place-- with money I made off preconditioning(hows that for credability). Have nice fences and pens set up to work real easy.Right now I have a feedlot and 4 full pens and 2 halfs.
I pasture(10-30 acres/pen) the cattle as it helps to keep them healthier-- so I bring them to the bunk/pen twice a day for the first week- then daily afterwards.
I have had the same main feedlot for the whole 25 yrs(hows that for credability)-- and work others in around keeping him supplied.
He buys seconds and bulls 8 and 9's-- We work them up and keep them 45 days after the load is finished. If you know anything at all about cattle -- theres the rest of my credability.
The rest we usually put in are QUALITY 4- 5 and 6's-- rarely heiffers
Have done 3's but I don't like it.

what are you bringing to this party that makes you feel you can look down your nose at me???

Maybe if you quit taunting me-- we can get down to what I can learn off of you-- besides the one thing I have learned so far.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

so you pretty much think im talking down too you . he!! you dont intimadate me at all aparentlly i must be getting under your skin are you would shrug me off as a know nothing soon as you start making sence ill be glad too listen. dont care how many culls you buy are steal if you got the knowledge so be it. ive made it this far without your help likely too go a few more years without it too. just dont judge all cattle by the scrap your buying.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Now back too the temperment deal. you can take a pen of tiger replacements that a breeder has already culled as for as temperment and genetics, and ask a breeder of strait herefords to walk threw and cull on temperment alone there would'nt be a heifer left in the pen.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Thats it????
What a disappointment-- I thought you had something to back up your arrogance.



I'm glad you can blow off the impressions of the middlemen-- most cow/calf guys aren't in that position.

And I ALWAYS qualified that my experieces were only with cattle that I get in here-- and what I am seeing here--
so you've got not nary a leg to stand on no matter how hard you keep trying--BTW thats our local definition of someone being slippery

I would have loved to hear from others outside of my area if they are seeing the same-- or not .And discuss it so I can learn more.......
guess thats just too much to expect on a cattle forum

NOW I'll just "shrug you off" because it seems like you are right about that-- its what I should have done right from the start.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

yep that's it. there only so much of this BS too discuss then youll have to start talking out of your mouth instead of your A$$ .HOWS THAT FOR CREDIBILITY. .go blow smoke up someone elses a$$

 

[Howdyjabo]

I agree the breeders of Herefords(AROUND HERE) have done an excellent job with temperment-- they have that breed in general
dociled down to pasture puppies--

Are you a Hereford breeder????

If thats what has a bug up your ###
AROUND HERE herefords are not refferred to as "Red calves"-
They are Herefords.No more than Gerts are called "red calves"


See if thats all your problem has been--- you did eventually learn something off this ignorant
Could have been alot easier on both of us without your pandering attitude.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

temperment in herefords would be the last problem they would have too worry about, ive had hereford bulls there docile animals but i have some old brafords and simbrahs bred to brangus for replacments, and young f1 brangus heifers,in my experiance the black brangus are more aggressive than most bra influance. never seen the color pattern make a differance .

 

[andybob]

I have never seen an aggressive Tuli red coloured or otherwise, and the Sussex, a deep red breed are docile, I believe temperement is more to do with lines within breeds rather than breeds as a whole or particular phenotypes. I remember when Brahman cattle had a bad reputation in our area as THE aggressive breed, years of hard work on the part of the breeders, and heavy culling, turned them around,the same can be done by any breeders having temperament problems.

 

[Victoria]

I've heard than Angus are tougher cows and when we started getting the half Red Angus we were watching them for temparment. We found that they have to know you before they'll let you at their calf. Some cows any person come up but these cows generally weren't like that. I actually really like their temparments and those of the purebred red angus too. I spend a lot of time with the cows and they let me up to weigh the calf, ear tag it, move it whatever I want to do. The dog comes near and gets chased out, coyotes aren't allowed near the calf and I would hate to be a stranger trying to get a hold of that calf!

Our worst cow we had was a Simm./Herf. cross. She was nuts. Had to get her in to ship her and I was thankful my cow pony was alive then. The cow was shaking her head at us and threatening and my pony decided to call her bluff. I held on for the ride. We did get her in and in the truck finally. Got our cheque in the mail from the auction market and she wasn't on it. Gave them a call and sure enough she was counted as arriving but not as selling. She must have jumped out at the auction mart and headed who knows where. We had bought her as a bred heifer so she was wearing someone else's brand and it was thankfully before the RFID tags so she couldn't be traced back to us and brought home! :lol:

 

[Howdyjabo]

AndyBob-- Seeing you are from NC-- Do you remember old man Hancock(back 50+ yrs ago). He owned most of Chatham county before it was "fence stock in".
He was the main reason that Brahmans had a bad rep around here.And he didn't help the Charlois out much either.
He only rounded up calves once a year-- all in overgrown cutover.
What got left behind was the "breeding stock"
You can imagine how their temperment tending to be after a decade of that.
Then Brahmans came around and he was the first around here to throw some bulls out. That just made their temperment that much more explosive.
Then Charlois came around and he was the first around here to threw some of those bulls out.
Now he had evasive,explosive and lethal all mixed up in one-- because he was still leaving behind the nuts every year.

To this day go around an old timer working the local stockyards and yell out "Hancock cattle coming thru"
And watch em decide which to do-- duck or jump in a panic.

He sold out around 25 yrs ago-- I worked at the stockyard towards the end of that. When he was down to using dogs and ropes to get the last caught. They were some terrifying beasts.
Everyone had a Hancock near miss story to tell.