Purchase price

[denoginnizer]

I am always reading articles about how to save money with good management practices or low cost feedstuffs but I hardly ever see any info on the importance of not paying to much for the cattle. Good 650 weight steer calves are selling for 68 cents a pound here yet good bred heifers are still bringing 1300-1500 a piece. That just seems like to much to pay. Any thoughts?

 

[bigbull338]

alot depends on the qualty of cattle your buying.we got .69lb for heavy weight calves that aved 760lb so thats dirt cheap for light calves.i pay $1500 to $2500 for reg bred cows an heifers.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I pay $1300 -$1600 for top end commercial angus 1st calf hfrs and hfr pairs from a reputable ranch
One of the reasons bred hfrs are remaining high is because with the droughts and the high calf prices the last few yrs everyone was selling their hfrs as feeders instead of keeping replacement hfrs

 

[denoginnizer]

I wonder how long it takes a commercial cow man to make a profit with a 1600 heifer . If calf prices remain as low as they are today?

 

[bigbull338]

on a comm cow itll take 4 or 5 calves to get the cow paid for a make a profit.an thats based on a calf brining $400 to $500 ea year.

 

[Toby L.]

I just bought a 10 yr old bred baldie for $850, she's a little on the skinny side. The owner said she had always been like that since he had her. It seemed kind of on the high side to me, but he seemed like a nice enough guy with a small hobby farm so I didn't try to talk him down.

 

[1982vett]

Ouch, could have gotten her down here for around $400.

 

[dun]

We're asking $800 for weaned heifers and $1100 for 2nd stage bred heifers. If that's too high they'll just stay here.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I wonder how long it takes a commercial cow man to make a profit with a 1600 heifer . If calf prices remain as low as they are today?

actually less time than it takes a registered guy to make a profit on a $2000 reg cow :lol:

Ok lets look at #s the hfrs I bought this yr cost avg of $1525 all but 3 had calves by their side they are guaranteed to calve and I know what kind of calves they will throw in future yrs because of genetics in his herd

or I can go to the sale barn and give $1100-$1250 for bred hfrs don't know what they are other than by looking at them

lets say I buy 50 from both places
sale barn hfrs cost me $58,750 the ones off the ranch cost me $70,000 ok they are all bred hfrs no calfs on them the ones I get from the sale barn are supposed to be bred in 75 days they wind up taking 90 days to calve I pull 10 calves out of the sale barn cows and lose 3 also 5 of them don't calve at all

The ones off the ranch are bred for 60 days and calve out in 65 days I don't pull one and lose no calves because of birthing problems also 3 of them don't calf for some odd reason

sale barn cows I just lost 8 hfrs because of the calving probs so that cost me 8 x$1175=$8400

the ones off the ranch I sell the one that didn't calve and he refunds the diff from what I get at the sale barn so I didn't lose anything so my cost in the remaining ones is $65,800 the ones from the sale barn cost me $4000 after I sell them that is 8x$550=$4400 subtract that from the original cost of those 8 which was $8400
sale barn cows$58750 - 4000=54750 in 42 cows for an avg price of $1303.57
ranch cows $70000-4200=$65800 in 47 cows for an avg price of$1400.00 and because he knows what my cows are he buys my calfs back at market or above and I pay no freight or commission so if the ranch calves weigh 550# and bring $1.05 that is $577.50pr hd if the sale barn calves weigh 525# and bring $1.02 that is $535.50 and then I pay commision and freight at $26.50 per hd $1113 so the sale barn calves netted $21378 and the ones from the ranch netted $27142.50 so it doesn't take as long to pay the difference when you put the pencil to it

 

[HerefordSire]

cowman....just having fun as I haven't studied the numbers yet....BUT

if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas. :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:

 

[Cowdirt]

actually less time than it takes a registered guy to make a profit on a $2000 reg cow :lol:

Ok lets look at #s the hfrs I bought this yr cost avg of $1525 all but 3 had calves by their side they are guaranteed to calve and I know what kind of calves they will throw in future yrs because of genetics in his herd

or I can go to the sale barn and give $1100-$1250 for bred hfrs don't know what they are other than by looking at them

lets say I buy 50 from both places
sale barn hfrs cost me $58,750 the ones off the ranch cost me $70,000 ok they are all bred hfrs no calfs on them the ones I get from the sale barn are supposed to be bred in 75 days they wind up taking 90 days to calve I pull 10 calves out of the sale barn cows and lose 3 also 5 of them don't calve at all

The ones off the ranch are bred for 60 days and calve out in 65 days I don't pull one and lose no calves because of birthing problems also 3 of them don't calf for some odd reason

sale barn cows I just lost 8 hfrs because of the calving probs so that cost me 8 x$1175=$8400

the ones off the ranch I sell the one that didn't calve and he refunds the diff from what I get at the sale barn so I didn't lose anything so my cost in the remaining ones is $65,800 the ones from the sale barn cost me $4000 after I sell them that is 8x$550=$4400 subtract that from the original cost of those 8 which was $8400
sale barn cows$58750 - 4000=54750 in 42 cows for an avg price of $1303.57
ranch cows $70000-4200=$65800 in 47 cows for an avg price of$1400.00 and because he knows what my cows are he buys my calfs back at market or above and I pay no freight or commission so if the ranch calves weigh 550# and bring $1.05 that is $577.50pr hd if the sale barn calves weigh 525# and bring $1.02 that is $535.50 and then I pay commision and freight at $26.50 per hd $1113 so the sale barn calves netted $21378 and the ones from the ranch netted $27142.50 so it doesn't take as long to pay the difference when you put the pencil to it[/quote]
A lot of "atmospheric analysis" in this scenario.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Ouch, could have gotten her down here for around $400.

A guy was telling me today he bought 34 heavy breds in the '05 drought at the sale barn. He paid prices like your stating. He calved them out and sold 6 or so pairs. He bred the rest back to a good beefmaster bull and calved them again. He then sold them, retaining all heifers from the calvings out of them.

He claims he is deep in the black as is, selling the cows for profit, selling the steers and has the heifers he retained. I don't know this guy all that well to know if he's straight up about things. He claims to have lost no calves at all.

 

[1982vett]

Had some new faces at the local sale yesterday, first time in a few weeks any thing bred didn't go to slaughter. Most of the cows coming thru now show a lot of bone but they were buying just about anything that was bred. Some of the younger ones and better shaped ones did go to $625 or so. Several nice angus heifers weighing in the 950's brought .68 - .70.

I would think if you have the winter pasture you could put some weight on them, calve them and with any amount of improvement in the prices next spring, you would probably make some money.

I had an old cow that lost her calf last month, good shape just old, weight 1065 brought .38, one just as good but bigger weight in the 1400's brought .40. If they had bone showing tops was .28 - .35

 

[tom4018]

Seen some really nice 5 year old black cows with about 200# calves on their side sell today for $875 ea..

 

[cypressfarms]

I am always reading articles about how to save money with good management practices or low cost feedstuffs but I hardly ever see any info on the importance of not paying to much for the cattle. Good 650 weight steer calves are selling for 68 cents a pound here yet good bred heifers are still bringing 1300-1500 a piece. That just seems like to much to pay. Any thoughts?

Deno,


I have never understood this - how bred heifers bring so much money, but cows so little in comparison. Back several years ago I posted a thread about a brangus auction I went to where the bred heifers were bringing 2 to 3 times as much as there moma's (with calves at their side). The general concensus at the time was that people feel the heifer to be gentically superior. I think this is so counter-intuitive. A bred heifer who could potentially have calving problems and has not proven herself versus a moma cow who's had a couple of calves already and shown her worth. For me it's a no brainer. Right now in this area you can buy three bred cows for the price of two bred heifers - soon it'll be at one bred heifer = two bred cows. What are people thinking???

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Same thing at PB sales. I have seen cow's with 6-7 month old heifer calves on their side. They sell pick of the pair first - inevitably the high dollar bid will pick the heifer calf. I ALWAYS wait and pick the factory - and usually for less money. Of course, I'm not looking to purchase a show heifer, where they might be.

 

[Jogeephus]

I am always reading articles about how to save money with good management practices or low cost feedstuffs but I hardly ever see any info on the importance of not paying to much for the cattle. Good 650 weight steer calves are selling for 68 cents a pound here yet good bred heifers are still bringing 1300-1500 a piece. That just seems like to much to pay. Any thoughts?

I love to play with the numbers on the sale's items. If product A will get you 15% higher weaning weight and product B will get you 5% more and product C will fetch you 10% more why is it that the weaning weight just don't seem to increase 30%. Or is it that "up to" clause they through in there. I think I could apply that to rain. If I got normal rainfall I'm just about positive I could have gotten a 15% increase in my weaning weights.

As for cost of animals, I think it really depends on how you market the animals. I'm pretty sure its just insane for me to pay $1600 per animal when I'm producing meat. If I were selling show steers or registered animals this would be a bargain. Of course I did say I'm pretty sure. With an open mind, I've been conducting an experiment this year with some "high dollar pure bred registered animals". So far, these animals have shown me they need pampering and have the highest death rate of anything I've ever raised. They also apparantly excede all others in care requirements. Buzzards sure seem to love them but I'll be interested to see what the weaning weights of their calves will be. Afterall, their EPD's are some of the best money can buy.

As a general rule, I will not pay anymore for an animal than what its calf will fetch but like I say - I'm raising meat not something else. I sit on the fence and watch others chase these "good ones". One friend, regularly bought "bargain" high end heifers for $3500 per head. Beautiful animals and looked good in his field but he no longer has cows. Neighbor did the same. He was going to find the ultimate angus and get rich off sperm sales. He lost his house and now doesn't have cows. Beefmaster breeder up north of me tried the same. Had some of the best genetics in the state but since he lost his farm he no longer has cattle. JMO

 

[Frankie]

I am always reading articles about how to save money with good management practices or low cost feedstuffs but I hardly ever see any info on the importance of not paying to much for the cattle. Good 650 weight steer calves are selling for 68 cents a pound here yet good bred heifers are still bringing 1300-1500 a piece. That just seems like to much to pay. Any thoughts?

Deno,


I have never understood this - how bred heifers bring so much money, but cows so little in comparison. Back several years ago I posted a thread about a brangus auction I went to where the bred heifers were bringing 2 to 3 times as much as there moma's (with calves at their side). The general concensus at the time was that people feel the heifer to be gentically superior. I think this is so counter-intuitive. A bred heifer who could potentially have calving problems and has not proven herself versus a moma cow who's had a couple of calves already and shown her worth. For me it's a no brainer. Right now in this area you can buy three bred cows for the price of two bred heifers - soon it'll be at one bred heifer = two bred cows. What are people thinking???

I don't understand it either. It happens at a registered sale pretty often that buyers will bid up a bred heifer, then a 4-year-old well-bred three in one will sell for commercial prices. You can make it work for you, though. We used to sell almost all our heifers and buy young bred cows. We did well that way until both places we were able to buy the cattle we liked went out of business.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Ok lets put this in perspective
Jo you say you can not see pay 1500 or 1600 for a hfr I buy hfr pairs for this price
thsi yr my avg was $1525 in hfr pairs at this price it isn't any higher than keeping replacement hfrs
if a person actually does their math and keeps track of their expenses they will have at least $1200 and more like $1500 in that hfr by the time she has a calf and that is not counting the ones that don't work out or produce
I know guys will say oh I can raise a better hfr than I can buy but that is BS they are just not looking in the right places or the are looking with their eyes closed or they are trying to buy hfrs for $800 and that can't be done and get any quality or unifomity

I also agree with you Jo that if you are marketing beef thru a local sale barn and running a mixed herd of cows you can't afford to buy hfrs like that but as I stated on here before uniformity and carcass is what I am selling even though I am selling Beef and I have a different marketing avenue than most I usually receive 5-15 cents above market have no freight and no commission if I am selling feeders or if I retain ownership and feed them, my carcass premiums add alot to the equation

when I do cull any 3 or 4yr old cows I also get a premium for them also

I understand the avg cow/calf producer can't do this but I have made it work but it takes a little more investment and a little more marketing effort

 

[mnmtranching]

Big bred cow auction at Tri County today. You folks should have hooked up the trailer and come up.
You could buy as good a cows as you could imagine for kill prices.