Proud of Tennessee today.....

[Commercialfarmer]

I tend to agree with bear. A school is a place of learning and should be a place of safety, teachers are there to teach not worry about their pupils safety. I say let a security firm or the likes handle it, the odd teacher can carry but it should not be their responsibility to protect the school.

Understand the sentiment, but who's responsibility is it to make sure Johny (while on campus) gets in the correct car, or doesn't get hit by a car, doesn't choke, doesn't hurt another child, doesn't let a stranger in the building, gets out in a fire, is protected during a tornado, isn't exposed to blood born pathogens? Is that not security? All jobs have multi-facets to them. And not every teacher should have a gun or be forced to have one. Only a few would be necessary. If teachers aren't already responsible for child safety, then why do they carry liability insurance? Why are they crucified when something happens to a child? (and if negligent, they should be) Why not just give the school an additional tool to perform their job.

If you aren't capable of protecting yourself or those around you, unless your a police officer or security guard- then the second amendment has no merit. If it has merit, then I or anyone legally allowed to carry won't need a security officer sitting in my house 24 hours a day to protect me (and that is what it would take for the police to do an effective job). I don't have the training that has been proposed for the teachers, yet I will promise you that I will be capable.

 

[Jogeephus]

I think the simplest thing to do is to allow any and all teachers who have a concealed carry permit to carry on campus if it is their desire. Each willing person in the faculty can register in the office and let that be the end of it. It was my understanding that after 911 all public buildings were to have security on site. We have an armed resource officer at each school. Can't help but wonder why this school didn't have one too and if they did - where was he?

 

[highgrit]

Drinking coffee and eating doughnuts Jo what else do they have to do. I am with you on the teachers that have their CC permit, they need to be able to protect themselves. By law when you drop your kid off at school your not allowed to have a gun in your vehicle.
And when you go to the football game in Wheeler Co. you can't take your S&W airweight thru the metal detector at the gate either. :dunce: I don't know if this latest tragedy hurt our cause, but we need to get tuff on the criminals, not the law abiding citizen.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I tend to agree with bear. A school is a place of learning and should be a place of safety, teachers are there to teach not worry about their pupils safety. I say let a security firm or the likes handle it, the odd teacher can carry but it should not be their responsibility to protect the school.

And how are volunteer fireman able to save lives when they are actually salesmen, mechanics, farmers, etc and not full time firefighters?

My point is it should not be the teachers responsibility to protect the school even though they may be able to save lives by volunteering to carry a firearm.

The point you don't get as American's every law abiding citizen has the right to bear arms.
No other country in the world fundamentally gives their citizen's protection from their own government and self defense.
In my youth gun's were common place at school and we were not shooting the building up.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

A pocket full of rocks would be better than nothin. I have had some pretty good knots on my head from a well thrown rock.

You must be Scottish, rock throwing is a trait of a real Scotsman... :lol2:

 

[bear]

CB, I think everybody gets the fact that Americans have the right to bear arms and most, including myself, are very much for it.

The decision by Tennessee to allow teachers to carry probably does more for the protection of the teacher than the kids in the classroom.

If a shooter burst into a classroom and starts shooting, how many kids will die while a teacher is fumbling around getting his gun out and if the teacher is female will the gun be in her purse? This is not Hollywood where Treat Williams in "The Substitute" takes on a gang imbedded in a school. This does very little to provide protection for kids in that classroom. It's a win for those in favor of carrying. Nothing more, nothing less.

So, we have one side demanding right to carry. In reality, concealed carry is directed more toward self protection than those around us.

On the otherside we have those that are trying to ban assault rifles and derail our 2nd amendment that was put in our constitution for a reason.

Who is covering the middle ground?
Who is protecting the people at the shopping centers from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting our schools from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting the public from the mentally ill?
The evidence here lately would point to no one!

Gun owners and the NRA need to step up and while maintaining our right to carry, look beyond and be first in line to be part of the solution.
DEMAND responsible gun ownership.
DEMAND that current laws be enforced to the fullest as they were intended.
DEMAND that background check data bases be maintained as they were intended. Currently they are not.
DEMAND that the adjucated mentally defective data base be expanded to include mentally ill.
DEMAND that the children in our schools be protected from ALL outside threats including drugs.

Making these demands would serve to uphold and protect our second amendment and implement it responsibly.

If we want to keep our second amendment we will need to do more than argue for concealed carry. We all need to be part of the solution.

 

[pdfangus]

CB, I think everybody gets the fact that Americans have the right to bear arms and most, including myself, are very much for it.

The decision by Tennessee to allow teachers to carry probably does more for the protection of the teacher than the kids in the classroom.

If a shooter burst into a classroom and starts shooting, how many kids will die while a teacher is fumbling around getting his gun out and if the teacher is female will the gun be in her purse? This is not Hollywood where Treat Williams in "The Substitute" takes on a gang imbedded in a school. This does very little to provide protection for kids in that classroom. It's a win for those in favor of carrying. Nothing more, nothing less.

So, we have one side demanding right to carry. In reality, concealed carry is directed more toward self protection than those around us.

On the otherside we have those that are trying to ban assault rifles and derail our 2nd amendment that was put in our constitution for a reason.

Who is covering the middle ground?
Who is protecting the people at the shopping centers from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting our schools from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting the public from the mentally ill?
The evidence here lately would point to no one!

Gun owners and the NRA need to step up and while maintaining our right to carry, look beyond and be first in line to be part of the solution.
DEMAND responsible gun ownership.
DEMAND that current laws be enforced to the fullest as they were intended.
DEMAND that background check data bases be maintained as they were intended. Currently they are not.
DEMAND that the adjucated mentally defective data base be expanded to include mentally ill.
DEMAND that the children in our schools be protected from ALL outside threats including drugs.

Making these demands would serve to uphold and protect our second amendment and implement it responsibly.

If we want to keep our second amendment we will need to do more than argue for concealed carry. We all need to be part of the solution.

excellent post.....
with one exception......
it leaves out the fact that the now entrenched left in this country has no interest in upholding our traditions or our rights....
it is in their best interest to remove them from you.....
they will champion the rights of the mentally ill and fight persecution of deviants of all stripes while trampling those rights of the law abiding citizens because these things will strengthen their positions.
we are no longer operating in a true democratic republic.....
we are in an age of pseudo intellectualism and the majority of the electorate gets their information from a biased media which has abandoned all journalist principles in order to champion an agenda that they have bought hook line and sinker.....
most of us on this forum are talking about american ideals and from our fairly common perspective.....
but we are far far removed from the urban reality and new age thinking and the nanny state of the urban population centers.....
I cite for you jogeephus recent post about a trip to Washington.....you can go to any major urban center and observe the same divergence of thought and conduct fro the norm of you and I......

I have long thought this but hoped the majority of the american people thought as I did.....
the thing that swayed my thinking was the red and blue map of the results of the last election......that map clearly defines the divergence of american culture.....
those people represented by blue dots do not go to county fairs...they don't have kids in 4-H..they don't know where food comes from....they are three and four generations removed from the farm....water, power, transportation,safety, trash disposal, sewers, all come from the government and in far too many cases also housing and food....

The left in this country has been on a campaign for most of my life to undo the traditional american values....
they have been relentless by campaigning against us with our own values of freedom and fairness and equality....
using those values...... to champion every avenue of deviance imaginable

now we have god out of the schools and public displays...
the ten commandments can not be displayed in court houses...
we have the mentally ill roaming the streets helplessly...
we have all sorts of criminals set free on technicalities....
we have entrenched criminals and assorted fools roaming the halls of congress....
we have a muslim socialist foreign national egomaniac as a popular and revered president ....
queer is the new normal...like it or shut up....
race relations are steadily getting worse rather than better...
people with bibles and guns are radical extremist....
and we still think we can vote the bums out and take back our government....
we lost our government with the end of Ronald Reagan's term and the fall of conservative leadership.....
we are the minority and we still think we are in a fair game....
and so we sit around fussing with each other and lamenting our losses and hoping we can recover....
half of our representatives will try to compromise with the uncompromising leadership.....
Boehner has offered the left everything they started out asking for and now it is not enough, and yet he is being pilloried for not compromising while the left has yielded not one thing and is backing back toward their left while hurling insults of non cooperation and unyielding attitudes and assigning all blame to the conservatives....they want a wreck which they will blame on those supporting fiscal responsibility and american values.....then they will consolidate their power.
meanwhile we are on the verge of changes which a few short years ago were unfathomable lunatic fringe stuff....
I submit that we are now the lunatic fringe and the new minority....soon to be the repressed minority....

 

[highgrit]

My thoughts exactly. Thanks Pdfangus for doing such a fine job pointing it out.

 

[bear]

Pdfangus, I left it out because it was 1:30 in the morning and I was already worked up about this.

You are dead on.

We have talked for years about becoming the minority.

I don't like giving up that easily.

 

[HOSS]

CB, I think everybody gets the fact that Americans have the right to bear arms and most, including myself, are very much for it.

The decision by Tennessee to allow teachers to carry probably does more for the protection of the teacher than the kids in the classroom.

If a shooter burst into a classroom and starts shooting, how many kids will die while a teacher is fumbling around getting his gun out and if the teacher is female will the gun be in her purse? This is not Hollywood where Treat Williams in "The Substitute" takes on a gang imbedded in a school. This does very little to provide protection for kids in that classroom. It's a win for those in favor of carrying. Nothing more, nothing less.

So, we have one side demanding right to carry. In reality, concealed carry is directed more toward self protection than those around us.

On the otherside we have those that are trying to ban assault rifles and derail our 2nd amendment that was put in our constitution for a reason.

Who is covering the middle ground?
Who is protecting the people at the shopping centers from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting our schools from irresponsible gun ownership?
Who is protecting the public from the mentally ill?
The evidence here lately would point to no one!

Gun owners and the NRA need to step up and while maintaining our right to carry, look beyond and be first in line to be part of the solution.
DEMAND responsible gun ownership.
DEMAND that current laws be enforced to the fullest as they were intended.
DEMAND that background check data bases be maintained as they were intended. Currently they are not.
DEMAND that the adjucated mentally defective data base be expanded to include mentally ill.
DEMAND that the children in our schools be protected from ALL outside threats including drugs.

Making these demands would serve to uphold and protect our second amendment and implement it responsibly.

If we want to keep our second amendment we will need to do more than argue for concealed carry. We all need to be part of the solution.

bear, I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. You are partly right in my view but..... Let's say a deranged gunman goes into a gun-free school and shoots 20 children and 6 adults......no wait....that was a reality. Let's now say that the same deranged gunman goes into the same school with the same teachers but this time some of them are armed. Does he kill some children and teachers......maybe. Does he kill 26 people? Maybe, or maybe not. With unarmed teachers it is a gaurantee that many will die......with armed teachers it is not a gaurantee that many will die. Yes the teacher may fumble for the weapon but a fumbled for or hard to get weapon is WAY better than no weapon at all. One Texas town has had armed teachers in the classroom since 2008 with 0 incidents of accidental discharge or student accessing those weapons. I have never heard of a mass shooter / killer attacking a police station, gun show, gun store or NRA convention. There is a reason for that.

I know I would feel much better if Little HOSS was attending a school where the teachers were carrying. In Israel teachers carry fully automatic weapons and handguns on their back and in holsters. I have seen pictures of them armed to the teeth teaching class. The terrorist have abandoned the idea of attacking schools as the schools have become a hardened target and the price to do so would be much higher than say attacking a public bus. In Pearl, Mississippi the school shooter was stopped by the assistant principal who retrieved a .45 from his car and apprehended the shooter as he was heading to the middle school to continue his shooting rampage. What if this assistant principal had been carrying his .45 and did not have to go to his car, which was parked off premises, and retrieve his pistol? He would have stopped the shooter earlier in his rampage thus saving more students.

In a nut-shell I believe that it will be a step in the right direction for two reasons. 1) A psycho might be stopped before he he can do as much damage if teachers were armed. 2) Just like the police station, gun stor, gun show or Israeli school a psycho will avoid those places in favor of softer targets like a gun free zone. Just my :2cents:

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Hoss you are right on target. Have yet to see where one of the nut has attacked a police station.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hoss you and I agree on arming the teachers the Mrs. was one (still subs )and my daughter is one.
Both have chl's and are very proficient with one as well. I know both would die defending thier kid's armed or unarmed.
At least they might have a chance armed they stand none now other than a bullet sponge.

 

[Caustic Burno]

PS the Mrs. taught the behavioral management student's. You have no idea at some of the kid's that are in our school's that need to be in a psycho ward . They dang sure don't belong in school but the PC world of the all inclusion doesn't work.

 

[pdfangus]

Pdfangus, I left it out because it was 1:30 in the morning and I was already worked up about this.

You are dead on.

We have talked for years about becoming the minority.

I don't like giving up that easily.

BEAR....GIVING UP NEVER CROSSED MY MIND.....THAT WAS JUST MY ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.....I JUST BOUGHT A NEW CONCEALED CARRY 357 MAG TWO WEEKS AGO....I HAVE GUNS EVERYWHERE I AM NOW OR I DON'T GO THERE....not yelling just use caps too much......it would take something special to get me to go on an airplane now because 1. I don't care to be disarmed and 2. I am not going to undress in public so some yahoo can look in my boot and find my sheath knife. 3. I have not broken the law lately and will not be considered to be a criminal because i might want to ride an airplane..... I have ridden many an airplane and today it is just a glorified bus....I got a vehicle and I will drive....

 

[bear]

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out!

 

[Commercialfarmer]

PS the Mrs. taught the behavioral management student's. You have no idea at some of the kid's that are in our school's that need to be in a psycho ward . They dang sure don't belong in school but the PC world of the all inclusion doesn't work.

Yep and now they won't let them be separated for special assistance or to at least leave the other kids be either.

CB I was talking to my wife last night about CC in school and she kinda surprised me. She taught in a city, in an unnamed state south of here. She said there have been teachers packing in several schools down there for a while. In her school, it wasn't broadcast on the airway, but it was pretty much known and discussed amongst themselves. She said that they ALL felt better knowing that there were individuals in the building in the event something happened.

 

[Bigfoot]

Many teachers that are cc bring their weapon to school. They are not broadcasting the news it's there, but its there if they need it.

 

[pdfangus]

I applaud above named teacher for their courage..... because if the NEA or the US dept of education finds out, there they will likely be enough heat generated that they will be fired if not jailed. First premise of socialism is to disarm the citizens, and states take enough federal education money now that they have to be on bended knee to the feds and do their bidding.