proud cut

[cross_7]

I'm still trying to get passed "went to look at the horse for the first time, no one around so I threw a halter on him and jumped on bareback". :shock: My understanding about proud cut is, proud cut is leaving a portion of the testicle when gelded. Horse testicles have a "cap" like attachment, leaving part of the "cap". A retained testicle is just that a monorchid (sp), nothing has been cut.

Alan

i had always thought the reason for a proud cut horse was to leave the horse with some vigor so not to end up with a lazy dead head.
i had heard they can in some instances still cover a mare, but i have read that not to be the case but the "want to"
is still there and they still produce testosterone like a stud without ability to release it.
from what i have read the epididymis is what was "missed" when castrated.
i have also heard with surgery it can be removed ???

i'm by no means a horsemen but my dad was the best i have ever known(horses & dogs-he had a gift) and i learned some growing up, but i think either you have it or you don't. i think you have to get in their head to be a true horsemen(buck brannaman)
i do know you have to have their respect and their focus/mind has to with you 100% and as long as his mind is else where i don't think i could correct him.
would surgery fix him? just don't know enough about it to say

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Cross-7 -- A proud cut horse, in this day and age, is usually a badly done castration. Nobody wants those problems in search of "vigor." I have a dear friend, just down the road, who is a close personal friend of Buck Brannaman -- I've never met him (yet). But you're right, in that his head is probably not where you need it to be. Sounds like he's gotten away with crap, buffaloed some of his previous people, and surgery won't be the short fix. I commend you for thinking about taking him on -- for considering working with an otherwise maybe "disposable" horse. But . . . . Well, just BUT. Don't put yourself at risk.

 

[cross_7]

Cross-7 -- A proud cut horse, in this day and age, is usually a badly done castration. Nobody wants those problems in search of "vigor." I have a dear friend, just down the road, who is a close personal friend of Buck Brannaman -- I've never met him (yet). But you're right, in that his head is probably not where you need it to be. Sounds like he's gotten away with crap, buffaloed some of his previous people, and surgery won't be the short fix. I commend you for thinking about taking him on -- for considering working with an otherwise maybe "disposable" horse. But . . . . Well, just BUT. Don't put yourself at risk.

he was a ranch horse and i'd bet he didn't get away with much but i'd say they sold him because of his behavior.
the horse was sold to a lady as a horse for her children, she soon found out you couldn't have him around mares.
she had hired a trainer to train him and the trainer did more damage than good.
so i thought i could help her and the horse both.
what really surprised me was when i went to get on him he was trying to protect himself and i understand and repect that, but once i move out of "his space" he still had his ears back teeth bared and acted like he was going to paw me.
i grabbed the lead rope and gave it a tug and told him that was enough and he calmed down.
that is what sticks in my mind.
when the other horses came over to the fence i couldn't get his mind away from them and on me and he had no repect for me at all.
i don't think you can become the alpha in his mind and his physical probelms have to be corrected before you could do anything with him.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Well, I've said/cautioned all I can on this topic. And I notice no one else is chiming in, urging you to take on that sort of project. Just be careful.

 

[cross_7]

any knucklehead can throw a leg over a horse but a horseman has a relationship with his horse.
i have posted this here before but if you just focus on the the horse and not the the other you can see the relationship/control he has with the horse and the trust the horse has for the rider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4glo6LB ... re=related

 

[hrstrader]

There is no such thing as proud cut. A horse can have a retained testicle known as a cryptorchid or ridgling. Proud cut was a term used for a horse that had been cut too late in life, possibly used to breed a few mares and thn cut. Staggy would be another term for this. Yes you can have a retained testicle removed @ about 500. You can check with a ultrasound machine or through hormone challenge testing.
Now for me. Above was from wife, an equine vet. If I liked it, I'd try it if it was worth the money.
now

 

[hrstrader]

Stupid phone!
I'd rather get bucked off with no one around than with a crowd. Most everything I buy I jubust ride with a shipping halter and bareback. Sure I get cheated or educated sometimes but it usually works out.

 

[Alan]

Stupid phone!
I'd rather get bucked off with no one around than with a crowd. Most everything I buy I jubust ride with a shipping halter and bareback. Sure I get cheated or educated sometimes but it usually works out.

Trader, I took the time to actually do a google on proud cut, I stand corrected, you/your wife is correct, I'm wrong..... Again.

As far a stating you would rather jump on a unknown horse by yourself, bareback with just a halter is terrible advice. Now, you may be a NFR bareback rider, 22 yrs old, etc., who knows on the Internet. I have been in and out of horses for over 30 years and in the last 15 or so. Enough to know so many folks look at horses like dogs, "we have a special bond and they would never put me
in danger or hurt me." I'l catch some heat for this but :bs: :bs: :bs: any horse any day! But because so many folks do not have the experience you may have your thought on a halter, bareback and alone may leave someone laying in the dirt with a broken back, broken neck, broken arm..etc. 30+ years and I would never jump on a unknown horse with just a halter. when you see the horse for the first time arrange to meet the owner or trainer, should not be saddled, pet the horse, both to be friendly and to check if it has been warmed up prior to your arrival. Look at the eyes, the should appear clear and alert, not drugged. Then have the owner jump on, do they have to lunge the horse first, tire him out some? When you feel safe then get on. :2cents:

Just another opinion, and cross7 try to find another horse, lots of good ones out there cheap these days. Why buy someones else's problems.

Alan

 

[TexasBred]

What I know about horses wouldn't fill a thimble but why couldn't you go back in and remove the other seed and make something useful out of him??

i've heard you could and you couldn't.
i really wanted to hear from milkmaid on this

cross_7 and TB, I won't belabor this point, but I think many of those on here that deal with horses or have good prior experience have given good advice. There is more wrong with that gelding/quasi-gelding than a surgery could fix. An extremely experienced horseman, willing to take risks, might be willing to mess with him. He's a bad wreck waiting to happen -- not an "accident" waiting to happen, because all the warning bells and whistles have already sounded. Unfortunately. :frowns:

Then you're saying his attitude has nothing to do with him still having one testicle???

 

[peg4x4]

Did you watch "Buck"??
Ok,My :2cents: Do not buy/ride this horse. There are too many really good horses that may not have papers that can be bought for little or nothing. Heck,there are too many good horses with papers.. I don't like it,but sounds like this one belongs on a plate somewhere. :2cents: :deadhorse:

 

[milkmaid]

Sounds like the issue is training rather than hormones. I've been around and ridden some studs that were really nice to handle. Having testicles is not a valid excuse for any horse to misbehave.

If he's a cryptorchid or part of the epididymus was not removed, surgery can be done... will probably cost you more than the horse is worth ($300 easily) but a cryptorchid can definitely be gelded. I had a colt like that done over Christmas break. I'd pass on the horse unless you really like a challenge and know you're a good enough horseman to make a decent horse out of him.

On a side note- I've seen quite a few horses upset about being ridden bareback (especially if they've never been ridden bareback before!) and I wouldn't consider a horse a problem because of it.

 

[chippie]

A entire stallion is not the same as a proud cut horse or cryptorchid. Training will not solve their problems.

 

[milkmaid]

I rode a 3 y/o cryptorchid for a couple weeks over Christmas break; he came off the range the month before and he handled quiet. Wouldn't have ever known he was a stud. I still maintain that there's no excuse for bad behavior from any animal no matter how many or few testicles they have.

 

[cross_7]

Sounds like the issue is training rather than hormones. I've been around and ridden some studs that were really nice to handle. Having testicles is not a valid excuse for any horse to misbehave.

If he's a cryptorchid or part of the epididymus was not removed, surgery can be done... will probably cost you more than the horse is worth ($300 easily) but a cryptorchid can definitely be gelded. I had a colt like that done over Christmas break. I'd pass on the horse unless you really like a challenge and know you're a good enough horseman to make a decent horse out of him.

On a side note- I've seen quite a few horses upset about being ridden bareback (especially if they've never been ridden bareback before!) and I wouldn't consider a horse a problem because of it.

thanks milkmaid
i think their biggest problem was jumping thru the stall feed window, then the two pipe fences and being completely unable to control him when a mare is close by.
i talked to the trainer on the phone that they hired to fix the problem and the trainer said he didn't like his "head pulled on" i never really understood that, but went on to say they had used a tie down and went from a curb bit to a snaffle.
the stable owner said the trainer did more damage than good and she had seen the trainer get mad yank back with both reins and nearly flipped him over backwards and would yank on his head and mouth.
he did sling his head head some when haltered him but after a while he did realize it wasn't working with me and quit.
i know i'm repeating myself but the biggest thing for me was the aggressive behavior towards me even after i backed off and gave him space he still acted aggressive, like he was going to bite and rear up and paw.
then when the other horses came to the fence, i was an obsticle and i think he would have run over me if i made him choose between stopping or running over me.
i'm not trying to tell you how tough i am but i was raised on ranches and ranch horses and rode bulls all over texas, nm & ok when i was younger and this horse kind of had me buffaloed.
i really wanted to help the lady that owned the horse and i really wanted to get that horse a way from the trianer, but i think the ranch that sold him because they couldn't straighten him out and if they couldn't then i didn't think i could.
they said proud cut but i guess he could have a retained testicle
whatever the problem is it causing him lots of trouble.

 

[spinandslide]

cross

Ive been around horses most of my life..we've had foals to grown horses, all sexes..There is a difference in a lack of training or mis-handling..and out and out aggression..and based on your description, this horse is what Id call "mean"..hes not scared, hes a jackass..hes learned being mean get him what he wants.

Now, would he be a dream come true to someone? I imagine so..but not to me. The way the market is now, you can pick up a sane horse, probably almost as "good" as this horse "might" be for not a whole bunch..and not have to take out an additional policy in life insurance should he kill you.

A horse like this..balls or no balls..is going to require alot of work..and it could potentially be dangerous..

 

[cow pollinater]

If you take that deal in NM, buy him... Otherwise stay away.
There's nothing better in big, open, tough country than a horse that you really honestly hate. :nod: It's hard to get it done on the ones that you feel bad about punishing.