Protein tubs

[Dixieangus]

What protein rubs should I feed to 7 calves and 1 mama cow...I'm feeding the calves free choice soy hulls( not to the cow) and will be feeding free choice hay. My goal is for them to eat less hay... So which one 12, 16, 24, or 30 percent protein they all have about the same amount of fat.

 

[BC]

Protein tubs (or other protein supplements) are used to enhance low quality forage not replace it.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I do not use them, but had to once. I got high protein.

Pay attention to what BC said. He's dead on.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I have actually seen an increase in hay or grass with the protein tubs when I fed them

 

[Caustic Burno]

What protein rubs should I feed to 7 calves and 1 mama cow...I'm feeding the calves free choice soy hulls( not to the cow) and will be feeding free choice hay. My goal is for them to eat less hay... So which one 12, 16, 24, or 30 percent protein they all have about the same amount of fat.

Protien tubs are a waste of money and increase hay consumption like feeding CLS go to something like Mix 30.
http://www.mix30.com/

 

[cypressfarms]

I've seen protein tubs make "lazy" cows clean up the dead forage in pastures, but generally I don't prefer to use them.

Kind of a varation on Caustic's old saying "Everytime you open a sack of feed, you lose profit", well I think that protein tubs are a loss of potential profit as well. The only time I would ever consider it (and I'd use liquid feed) is if the cows were in such bad shape that they would be in danger of not breeding back. JMO though.

 

[TexasBred]

What protein rubs should I feed to 7 calves and 1 mama cow...I'm feeding the calves free choice soy hulls( not to the cow) and will be feeding free choice hay. My goal is for them to eat less hay... So which one 12, 16, 24, or 30 percent protein they all have about the same amount of fat.

As others said, nothing really replaces hay in the winter. But low quality hay needs to be supplemented or you're just fooling yourself. I'd feed the 16% tub myself but be sure and buy a high quality cooked tub. I assure you it will be better than 99% of the liquid feed you buy except some of them do have elevated levels of fat in them. The cooked tubs are low consumption, low moisture and typically utilize higher quality protein and mineral sources. And yes they'll also increase hay consumption but that's what you want in the winter as it's not a good time to limit feed your cattle. Crystalyx makes a good one and there are numerous others out there.

 

[angus9259]

Hope all these opinions on all ends of the spectrum help you sort things out!!

I'm smack dab in the middle. I use crystalix tubs but I'm not entirely convinced what they do for me. I do know my hay is mostly grass and I fall calve so keeping momma's going over the winter and getting them bred back can be a challenge. I watch the manure too - I like it to look like slightly stiffened pancake batter when they're on hay. Too loose and I'm concerned I'm overspending on protein - too stiff and I'm concerned they grass isn't getting processed to the extent I'd like to see. With that in mind, you can also use various levels of protein tubs for various hay sources.

Again, however, I have no actual empirical evidence that they do anything.

I also have a saying from dun (actually, I think dun's father) etched in my mind - "you can't starve a profit out of a cow"

 

[Caustic Burno]

Put a pencil to what a protien tub cost and your wasting money big time low protien tub 24 % is 58 bucks for 200 pound here high protien 30% is 90 bucks. This comes 580 a ton to 900 dollars a ton. When you can feed a 2/1 mix of cotton seed meal/salt or 2/1/1 mix of cotton seed meal/corn/ salt for 280 a ton.

Seems to me the only benifiting from the protien tub is the seller.

 

[Caustic Burno]

PS the 2/1 mix is 27% protien
2/1/1 mix 13%
Why would you pay up to 900 dollars a ton for protien when you can supply it for 300.

 

[TexasBred]

BUT compare a one (1) lb. per head per day consumption rate on the tubs to the 4-5 lbs per head per day consumption rate on the meal/salt mix (with no or minimal vitamins and minerals) and you're cost comes down considerably on the tub.....and goes up proportionataly on the higher consumption range meal. Consumption of loose mineral will also go down when feeding the tub -vs- the range meal if it's a good high quality cooked tub. I will agree that the 20-24% poured tubs from TSC are pretty worthless and not cost effective.

I also wonder why someone will spend $8.00 for a bag of 20% range cubes when they can pay $2.00 a bag more and get a 38-40% cube and feed half as much. But 90% of the people that feed cubes do it this way and never give it a second thought.

 

[Caustic Burno]

BUT compare a one (1) lb. per head per day consumption rate on the tubs to the 4-5 lbs per head per day consumption rate on the meal/salt mix (with no or minimal vitamins and minerals) and you're cost comes down considerably on the tub.....and goes up proportionataly on the higher consumption range meal. Consumption of loose mineral will also go down when feeding the tub -vs- the range meal if it's a good high quality cooked tub. I will agree that the 20-24% poured tubs from TSC are pretty worthless and not cost effective.

I also wonder why someone will spend $8.00 for a bag of 20% range cubes when they can pay $2.00 a bag more and get a 38-40% cube and feed half as much. But 90% of the people that feed cubes do it this way and never give it a second thought.

Rather than try to argue might want to read this.
http://animalscience.tamu.edu/images/pd ... d-feed.pdf

 

[TexasBred]

Not trying to argue with you at all CB but if you'll read the article again that you posted you'll see that all it does is confirm everything I said but the article needs to be corrected in one area and that is that most high quality tubs use NPN to meet nitrogen needs' That is no longer try as now the higher quality tubs use soybean meal, which is not only higher quality but also much higher in energy.

At $900 a ton, when consumption is one pound per day that's $.45 per head per day and it is high quality protein,vitamin and minerals.....Your $300 2-1 range meal cost $.45 per day to feed and 33% of it is nothing but salt. The 2-1-1 they'll eat 4 lbs. per day at a cow of $.55 per day and 25% of it is nothing but salt and is only 14% protein (If your cottonseed meal is a true 41% protein which most hasn't been the past 2 years) and you have to feed it everyday by hand since you get so much rain in your area. If not daily then it rains on it, the salt melts and is gone and they pig out on the remaining cottonseed meal.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Syrup Blocks and Tubs. These generally range
from 12 percent to 24 percent CP (often about half
from NPN) and are medium in energy.
Consumption of these blocks usually is very low
(typically 1/2 pound to 1 1/2 pounds a day), so higher
protein versions probably are most useful. These
products are not intended to directly supply much
supplemental protein or energy. Rather, their theoretical
function is to stimulate rumen microbes to
digest more forage and produce microbial protein,
which can be utilized in the small intestine. For this
to occur, sufficient amounts of at least moderately
digestible forage must be available. These feeds
work best when supplied year-round, allowing
accumulation of body fat reserves that animals can
utilize during typical fall and winter decline in forage
quality and quantity. They generally will not
support high performance.

Tubs are easy that is why they sell them, kinda of like fishing lures are made to catch fishermen not fish.
If that salt and cottonseed meal washes off I need to check the roof ;-)
I used to be a big fan of CLS and tubs until Beef Forage workshops by A&M drilled through my thick skull.

 

[TexasBred]

Syrup Blocks and Tubs. These generally range
from 12 percent to 24 percent CP (often about half
from NPN) and are medium in energy. (HIGH QUALITY ONES HAVE NO NPN)
Consumption of these blocks usually is very low
(typically 1/2 pound to 1 1/2 pounds a day), so higher
protein versions probably are most useful. These
products are not intended to directly supply much
supplemental protein or energy. Rather, their theoretical
function is to stimulate rumen microbes to
digest more forage and produce microbial protein,But with natural protein rather than NPN they do supply supplemental protein AND energywhich can be utilized in the small intestine. For this
to occur, sufficient amounts of at least moderately
digestible forage must be available. These feeds (WINTER ONLY WITH FORAGE....FORAGE ONLY THE REST OF THE YEAR)work best when supplied year-round, allowing
accumulation of body fat reserves that animals can
utilize during typical fall and winter decline in forage
quality and quantity. They generally will not
support high performance. DEPENDS ON YOUR DEFINITION OF "HIGH PERFORMANCE". Tubs are easy that is why they sell them, kinda of like fishing lures are made to catch fishermen not fish.
If that salt and cottonseed meal washes off I need to check the roof ;-)
I used to be a big fan of CLS and tubs until Beef Forage workshops by A&M drilled through my thick skull.

Yes tubs are easy. Not a sin to make work easier....CB I used to be a big bass fisherman...probably had a couple thousand dollars of lures....always ended up fishing with the same colored worm ALL the time.. :???: But I'm not a fan of range meal and never have been.

 

[Kingfisher]

What protein rubs should I feed to 7 calves and 1 mama cow...I'm feeding the calves free choice soy hulls( not to the cow) and will be feeding free choice hay. My goal is for them to eat less hay... So which one 12, 16, 24, or 30 percent protein they all have about the same amount of fat.

I know if I was a calf.........soy hulls wouldn't be my choice. I would feed a calf not try to make him eat something that ain't really going to help him grow in the long run proper. I think you probably have better choice of calf feed.

 

[TexasBred]

What protein rubs should I feed to 7 calves and 1 mama cow...I'm feeding the calves free choice soy hulls( not to the cow) and will be feeding free choice hay. My goal is for them to eat less hay... So which one 12, 16, 24, or 30 percent protein they all have about the same amount of fat.

I know if I was a calf.........soy hulls wouldn't be my choice. I would feed a calf not try to make him eat something that ain't really going to help him grow in the long run proper. I think you probably have better choice of calf feed.

They may not choose it but they will get use to it. Actually soybean hulls is one of the most complete and safest grain by-products around. About 90% of the TDN and energy of corn and higher in protein. Also very high in fiber. Certainly wouldn't hurt to give the cow some too if necessary.