protein tub

Help Support CattleToday:

BryanM

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
257
Reaction score
5
Location
ohio
I am looking for some info and advice on protein tubs. I have three cows and 3 heifers and 2 of the cows are within a month of calving. INbetween thanksgiving and x-mas I bought a raglands 200lb tub of 24% protein and I believe had minerals in it. the seven are now done with it.

I am currently feeding first cutting hay which is mostly grass with some clover and alfalfa in it, they have mineral block and free choice mineral in front of them and also receive a min 90 shot pre breeding and again at vaccineation time. The reason I put the tub in there was an article I saw in here about reading there manure piles wheather they where receiving enough protein.

The question I have is would you or does it hurt my breds to have this protein tub, does it make the calve to big? thanks for your time!
 

1982vett

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
9,718
Reaction score
584
Location
Central Texas
Question should be, "Does it help?" In my opinion, first cutting grass hay with alfalfa and clover should be doing the job. What does their manure pile tell you?
 
OP
B

BryanM

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
257
Reaction score
5
Location
ohio
it tells me some are getting almost enough and sometimes and others aren't getting enough
 

1982vett

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
9,718
Reaction score
584
Location
Central Texas
I guess if it makes you feel better to feed them the tubs, go ahead and feed them. But if your hay you are feeding is meeting their dietary needs, make your wallet feel better and leave the tub at the feed store.

For disclosure....I used to keep them out year round back in the day when a 225 lb tub ran $30. Last time I looked they wanted $80 for a 180lb tub. I'm going to have to have some pretty sorry hay and NO pasture before I spend that kind of money. But, winter in Texas and winter in Ohio are not the same animal.
 

greybeard

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
22,755
Reaction score
4,614
Location
Copperas Cove Tx
BryanM":2v2s3e26 said:
I am looking for some info and advice on protein tubs. I have three cows and 3 heifers and 2 of the cows are within a month of calving. INbetween thanksgiving and x-mas I bought a raglands 200lb tub of 24% protein and I believe had minerals in it. the seven are now done with it.

I am currently feeding first cutting hay which is mostly grass with some clover and alfalfa in it, they have mineral block and free choice mineral in front of them and also receive a min 90 shot pre breeding and again at vaccineation time. The reason I put the tub in there was an article I saw in here about reading there manure piles wheather they where receiving enough protein.

The question I have is would you or does it hurt my breds to have this protein tub, does it make the calve to big? thanks for your time!
I've never had any luck with protein tubs-breds or otherwise. Tried 3 different brands and my cows barely touch them. Most recent is a PVM from
http://www.pf4feed.com/products.html
and it's been out over 3 weeks for 8 head and it's almost untouched.

Last year, I put a ultralyx out for 15 mommas and it took them over a year to empty it.

Now, a molasses based tub--they'll lick it right down but it's for the sweet IMO and not for the protein.
Either my hay, winter forage, range meal and a few cubes every few days is doing the trick or my cows are just picky eaters.
Either way, I'm thru buying tubs.
 
OP
B

BryanM

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
257
Reaction score
5
Location
ohio
I noticed that all my cows and heifers lick it and finished it before I thought they would. they licked it clean. I bought at ruralking, I paid $38 for what they say 200lb tube. Maybe I am lacking something or not enough of something in the hay? I don't know! my main concern was not to have calving problems, due to tubs?
 

John SD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
1,584
Reaction score
1
Location
Meade County, South Dakota USA
I doubt the tub will give you any calving problems. Decent hay along with a good mineral should be enough for non-lactating cows who have protection from wind chill.

If you are going to feed a tub, I'd save it for after calving. Tubs are a good way to get magnesium into cows before and during green grass time to prevent grass tetany.

Keep in mind tubs are probably THE most expensive way to supplement protein, energy, and mag. There are more economical ways. With a tub, you are paying for convenience.
 

Craig Miller

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
2,241
Reaction score
9
Location
Nw Alabama
John SD":z8u4lgw0 said:
Keep in mind tubs are probably THE most expensive way to supplement protein, energy, and mag. There are more economical ways. With a tub, you are paying for convenience.


Could you expand on some other ways to do it?
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
19
Location
MO Ozarks
Liquids in lick tanks, grain, even good quality alfalfa. The problem is that other then the liquids you have to be there to feed it rather then the cows doing it whenever they want
 

John SD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
1,584
Reaction score
1
Location
Meade County, South Dakota USA
dun":3a9fp1oz said:
Liquids in lick tanks, grain, even good quality alfalfa. The problem is that other then the liquids you have to be there to feed it rather then the cows doing it whenever they want

Good post, dun. I would like to add a few thoughts.

You can buy bags of magnesium oxide and mix with loose salt/mineral. A little goes a long way. Mag is bitter/unpalatable and if you put in too much cows simply won't eat it.

Depending on availabilty in your area, DDG or SBM are good protein and energy sources. You could make your own home brew lick tub by mixing DDG or SBM with salt as a limiter.

You get the advantage of daily self feeding without the extra cost of store bought mfg blocks/tubs. Probably have to experiment a bit on salt content to get consumption rate in the zone where you want it.

You can also put some mag in your lick tub but don't get carried away or they won't eat it.

If the cattle are out in a large distant winter pasture with no feed bunks available cake can be a good option. While bagged cake seems to be pretty popular at this site, I just can't see any way to pencil out bag over bulk. You don't see anyone using bagged cake here at all anymore.

The basic rule that you can't get away from is the more a feed is processed, the more it costs. The way I see it, bagging cake adds significant cost and labor to both the feed guy and the rancher feeding it.

Everyone I know that feeds cake buys in bulk, and any larger operation nowdays has a truck load from the mill delivered to an overhead bin for filling a cake feeder in the pickup. Sure takes the work out of feeding cake when you don't have to touch a bag or burn piles of them when you are done.

Me, I'm a graduate of #10 aluminum scoop shovel university with a degree in 5 gal buckets! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

dun

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
47,334
Reaction score
19
Location
MO Ozarks
John SD":1apg2b0k said:
The basic rule that you can't get away from is the more a feed is processed, the more it costs. The way I see it, bagging cake adds significant cost and labor to both the feed guy and the rancher feeding it.

Everyone I know that feeds cake buys in bulk, and any larger operation nowdays has a truck load from the mill delivered to an overhead bin for filling a cake feeder in the pickup. Sure takes the work out of feeding cake when you don't have to touch a bag or burn piles of them when you are done.

Me, I'm a graduate of #10 aluminum scoop shovel university with a degree in 5 gal buckets! :lol: :lol: :lol:
When we used to feed bagged grain it cost 50 censt a bag more then bulk. I had a deal with the mill that as long as I opened the bag from the bottom so they could reuse them they gave me 50 cents for every bag I returned. Might be worth looking into.
 

John SD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
1,584
Reaction score
1
Location
Meade County, South Dakota USA
dun":3k6a1waq said:
John SD":3k6a1waq said:
The basic rule that you can't get away from is the more a feed is processed, the more it costs. The way I see it, bagging cake adds significant cost and labor to both the feed guy and the rancher feeding it.

Everyone I know that feeds cake buys in bulk, and any larger operation nowdays has a truck load from the mill delivered to an overhead bin for filling a cake feeder in the pickup. Sure takes the work out of feeding cake when you don't have to touch a bag or burn piles of them when you are done.

Me, I'm a graduate of #10 aluminum scoop shovel university with a degree in 5 gal buckets! :lol: :lol: :lol:
When we used to feed bagged grain it cost 50 censt a bag more then bulk. I had a deal with the mill that as long as I opened the bag from the bottom so they could reuse them they gave me 50 cents for every bag I returned. Might be worth looking into.

I do see bulk bags used but have no personal experience with them. Easy to handle with a skid steer or tractor loader. They look cumbersome to me to get the feed out of.

Sign at the feed store says they no longer accept bag returns any more, but they do refill your own bag. You have to purchase the bag initially.

They also use and as far as I know will still take back gunny sacks, with a deposit on the gunny sack. You get the deposit back only if you return the empty bag in good condition.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
31,029
Reaction score
546
Location
Heart of Texas
BryanM":3h2wadur said:
I noticed that all my cows and heifers lick it and finished it before I thought they would. they licked it clean. I bought at ruralking, I paid $38 for what they say 200lb tube. Maybe I am lacking something or not enough of something in the hay? I don't know! my main concern was not to have calving problems, due to tubs?
Bryan is that's all you paid for it I'm sure it's one of the "old model" poured tubs. The newer and higher quality tubs are cooked tubs, low moisture and lower consumption rate. Check the tag on that tub. Consumption rate may be as high as 4 lbs. per head per day so they won't last very long.
 

M5farm

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
5,154
Reaction score
1
Location
Sunshine State
snake67":33cnv4kq said:
Bigfoot":33cnv4kq said:
IMHO there are cheaper sources of protein than a tub.


Hear! Hear!

In fact I personally think of them as a waste of money - or a purchase by those who have too much money to worry about feeding alternative sources!

Bez

has anyone penciled out the cost with alternative sources( equipment needed, storage facilities, feed troughs, time investment etc!) v/s the ready to feed protein tubs.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
31,029
Reaction score
546
Location
Heart of Texas
M5farm":1tf0ll7x said:
has anyone penciled out the cost with alternative sources( equipment needed, storage facilities, feed troughs, time investment etc!) v/s the ready to feed protein tubs.

M5...got an old friend who has had a winch on the front of every truck he's owned for 40 years and says he's probably use it 4 or 5 times but will always say "You just can't put a price on convenience". It's there is you need it. That's the way I look at the protein tubs. They are a good product but expensive. But for a lot of operations they have a place such as some of folks that might have cattle in several locations and can't get by to "hand feed" every day if necessary. Now I know some on here will say they don't feed period but we're the original poster was wondering about supplementing low quality hay. This is one way. Definitely not the least expensive but certainly one way. The liquid feed dun mentioned is another way as are cubes. Best thing tho is to harvest or purchase higher quality hay.
 

M5farm

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
5,154
Reaction score
1
Location
Sunshine State
TexasBred":1o4hrmvv said:
M5farm":1o4hrmvv said:
has anyone penciled out the cost with alternative sources( equipment needed, storage facilities, feed troughs, time investment etc!) v/s the ready to feed protein tubs.

M5...got an old friend who has had a winch on the front of every truck he's owned for 40 years and says he's probably use it 4 or 5 times but will always say "You just can't put a price on convenience". It's there is you need it. That's the way I look at the protein tubs. They are a good product but expensive. But for a lot of operations they have a place such as some of folks that might have cattle in several locations and can't get by to "hand feed" every day if necessary. Now I know some on here will say they don't feed period but we're the original poster was wondering about supplementing low quality hay. This is one way. Definitely not the least expensive but certainly one way. The liquid feed dun mentioned is another way as are cubes. Best thing tho is to harvest or purchase higher quality hay.

I agree TB and I use them from time to time. I don't have the equipment or facilities at this time to feed any other supplements. I bought some late cut hay this weekend cause I'm running a little low because of the weather this year. It looks good and they are eating it but I am concerned it will not be as good as my other hay so I put out some tubs (.25 a lb) and I'm still feeding Pnut butter (.13 a lb)
 

snake67

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
978
Reaction score
0
Location
Transplanted westerner - now as far east in Ontari
M5farm":3kllwavx said:
snake67":3kllwavx said:
Bigfoot":3kllwavx said:
IMHO there are cheaper sources of protein than a tub.


Hear! Hear!

In fact I personally think of them as a waste of money - or a purchase by those who have too much money to worry about feeding alternative sources!

Bez

has anyone penciled out the cost with alternative sources( equipment needed, storage facilities, feed troughs, time investment etc!) v/s the ready to feed protein tubs.

Here is what we do.

I do it all with hay and a 400 buck bin for some small grains.

Feed everything on the ground or on the snow

Been doing it for 30 years with no probs.

What works for some does not work for all - but any hay that tests out over 8% - 11% means you do not have to buy grains at all in my mind.

In fact here is our usual feed plan for cattle.

First trimester - hay - no grain - free choice mineral - hay = anything that tests at 8% and below

Second trimester - hay - no grain - free choice mineral - hay = anything that tests 9-11%

Third trimester and first three months of calf sucking - only if no grass - hay that tests above 11% and corn fines (bin scrapings) from the neighbours corn drier plus the ever present mineral on free choice.

Once they hit pasture they are cut off of hay and corn fines and have only mineral available.

If a cow cannot thrive on this and raise a calf I do not want her - I kick her sorry asss down the road and all the babies that are related to her. Even if she is pretty, or friendly, or a great mother or the kids love her or the wife loves her - they are a commodity to make the farm profitable.

If I have to spend any money to supplement - then there had better be a darned good reason for it. 40 below weather - a week of wet weather and cold nights - heavy wind chills - all constitute a reason for us to up the corn (energy) part of the feed.

Otherwise - get out there Bossy and do your job or take the one way trip to the sale barn.

We now have a small herd that can live on straight hay and make us a dollar - and they live outside in the bush - there is no man made shelter for them.

It can be done - and sometimes when I read things on this site I think it is almost a pack mentality - if you are not "feeding" something then you need to go and buy it to be able to say "I am feeding XXX supplement".

So - to answer your question - in my mind - we personally have never had a need to pencil out infrastructure as there is no need for most of that equipment you mentioned.

The only feed troughs I have on the place consisted of one 16 foot x 24 indiameter plastic pipe that I cut into 4 pieces lengthwise. That sits on the ground and is the sheep trough - when we use it we tip them over and line them up and drop a bit of grain in them - 64 feet long - but no stand - I just sit them on the ground - total cost was about 40 bucks I think and it is at least ten years old now.

The cow business is an interesting game. It makes you want to spend money because you think you need to - that moose in the bush and that deer in the bush does just fine without all those fancy things.

A cow can do it as well.

The biggest change is the owner - who has to think differently than the "pack" if you truly want to make a dollar.

Got to run

Best to all

Bez
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
31,029
Reaction score
546
Location
Heart of Texas
The cow business is an interesting game. It makes you want to spend money because you think you need to - that moose in the bush and that deer in the bush does just fine without all those fancy things.


So did the cow before it was domesticated. Moose and deer starve to death every year in the wild. Your country and ours as well.
 

Latest posts

Top