Prices of bulls

[msplmtneer]

I watched a bull sale yesterday and a year old bull sold for 30,000 dollars.
My question is how long will it take to make that money back, also the seller retained 1/3 semen revenue?

 

[Aaron]

If you can find 300 suckers on sale day to believe he is the next big thing and pre-order semen at $100 a pop, you could make it back in the same day.

 

[True Grit Farms]

If you can find 300 suckers on sale day to believe he is the next big thing and pre-order semen at $100 a pop, you could make it back in the same day.

I happen to know someone that sold enough semen on the way home to pay for the bull they bought. Some folks have all the luck. This year bull sales are terrible in the southeast, now is the time to buy a quality bull.

 

[msplmtneer]

But you would only get to keep 2/3 of the semen revenue the seller retained a 1/3 interest and bull is only a year old.

 

[wbvs58]

The buyer of high price headline bulls gets a lot of publicity out of it. I know one fellow here that has not long been in the seed stock business, has a lot of money from the sale of a previous business, spends an enormous amount of money on advertising he and his wife have their mug shot in the rural papers very frequently buying high priced bulls and cows at sales. He hit the jackpot with his bull sale last year when 50 bulls sold for an average of around $14000. If you throw enough shyt some of it sticks. I think the publicity he gets from buying bulls outweighs the paid advertising.

Ken

 

[TCRanch]

The Director of Purchasing at a premium beef company was out last weekend (to hopefully buy our calves) and he/his family/partners spent an outrageous amount of money on a new bull (I just bought 2 new bulls - ain't noooo way!). Anyway, he was discussing the possibility of embryo transplant from this pricey bull with some of my cows and said we would receive 1/3 from all the calves. Hmmmmm.

 

[Stocker Steve]

But you would only get to keep 2/3 of the semen revenue the seller retained a 1/3 interest and bull is only a year old.

Most males have surplus semen :nod:

Sounds like the price of commercial bulls are down from last year. What are you seeing for year on year changes?

 

[WalnutCrest]

The Director of Purchasing at a premium beef company was out last weekend (to hopefully buy our calves) and he/his family/partners spent an outrageous amount of money on a new bull (I just bought 2 new bulls - ain't noooo way!). Anyway, he was discussing the possibility of embryo transplant from this pricey bull with some of my cows and said we would receive 1/3 from all the calves. Hmmmmm.

Depends on who pays for the flush, who is doing it, what happens if your cow won't breed back after behind flushed, IVF vs conventional, etc.

Might be a good deal. Might not.

I'm happy to talk if you want to.

 

[J&D Cattle]

The Director of Purchasing at a premium beef company was out last weekend (to hopefully buy our calves) and he/his family/partners spent an outrageous amount of money on a new bull (I just bought 2 new bulls - ain't noooo way!). Anyway, he was discussing the possibility of embryo transplant from this pricey bull with some of my cows and said we would receive 1/3 from all the calves. Hmmmmm.

I've actually got a meeting today to discuss using my cows in the same way. This couple is thinking about paying me top of the market at weaning plus an additional $300-$500 per calf. I'm not really sure what is fair. They will pay for everything to do with the pregnancy but I'll have to be diligent with the additional requirements to register the calf. I currently don't do anything with our calves until we get them up at around 3-4 months of age and give them their first round of shots and cut the bulls.

 

[TCRanch]

From what I understand we would not be responsible for paying/doing the flush, etc. I keep diligent records even though our calves are not registered, we tag/band the calves day 1 or 2 at which time they all get a First Defense bolus & bulls get Covexin 8. All calves are worked at appx 3 and 6 months, weaned for a minimum 30 - 45 days. Not sure if they would want us to keep any bull calves intact but doesn't matter to me one way or the other. We're still in the early discussion stage so I don't have a lot of info.

Hope your meeting goes well, J&D!

 

[Chocolate Cow]

TCRanch-for what it's worth-I was a recip herd for a several years. I'd NEVER do it again and here's my reasons - you have a percentage of cows reject the embryo. I breed for 60 days. Those cows won't have a chance to rebred before bulls are pulled and those cows will go to town for no fault of their own, unless you feel you can afford to keep an open cow for a year. The protocol, when I played the game, was the earliest calving cows went into the program. You'll eventually harm your herd because all you're left to pick replacements-if you keep your own replacements-will come from the cows that calve in the bottom half, possibly the lower fertile females.
Bull calves have to stay intact. No implants at all, never ever.
Any sickness-pinkeye for example- is your responsibility.
Some calves can and will be rejected because of weight requirements or eye scarring. that pinkeye thing.
There is a good possibility you could be required to creep feed to meet target weight-that is your $$$.
Management is paramount-You must have a copy of the chute work when calving out the recip cows. Embryologist has to give you a copy of what was implanted in what cow so you can tag accordingly. Otherwise, it's a waste of everyone's time and money.
I expect there are changes but this is what I remember. Registered guys around here will kill for a clean recip herd. There's not enough money to make me want to do this to my cows ever again. If you're only interested in dollars, do it.

 

[Son of Butch]

I watched a bull sale yesterday and a year old bull sold for 30,000 dollars.
My question is how long will it take to make that money back

Well, you could buy him and stand him at stud for $1 per cow @ 1 cow per day = $365 year
30k divided by 365 = 82 years 2 months 1 week and 3 days

Of course someone else may have a better plan.

 

[TCRanch]

TCRanch-for what it's worth-I was a recip herd for a several years. I'd NEVER do it again and here's my reasons - you have a percentage of cows reject the embryo. I breed for 60 days. Those cows won't have a chance to rebred before bulls are pulled and those cows will go to town for no fault of their own, unless you feel you can afford to keep an open cow for a year. The protocol, when I played the game, was the earliest calving cows went into the program. You'll eventually harm your herd because all you're left to pick replacements-if you keep your own replacements-will come from the cows that calve in the bottom half, possibly the lower fertile females.
Bull calves have to stay intact. No implants at all, never ever.
Any sickness-pinkeye for example- is your responsibility.
Some calves can and will be rejected because of weight requirements or eye scarring. that pinkeye thing.
There is a good possibility you could be required to creep feed to meet target weight-that is your $$$.
Management is paramount-You must have a copy of the chute work when calving out the recip cows. Embryologist has to give you a copy of what was implanted in what cow so you can tag accordingly. Otherwise, it's a waste of everyone's time and money.
I expect there are changes but this is what I remember. Registered guys around here will kill for a clean recip herd. There's not enough money to make me want to do this to my cows ever again. If you're only interested in dollars, do it.

Wow, thank you for your input. Some of the criteria wouldn't necessarily matter in our operation but there appear to be enough negatives to make me apprehensive.

 

[Chocolate Cow]

It won't hurt to talk to the people who are initiating the offer. Having 'been there-done that', I wanted to let you know. I, too, was paid top steer price for the current week the owner requested delivery + a $350-500 bonus. I can't remember how much. Also, delivery to the owner was on me. At the time of delivery, the calves were visually evaluated and walked across a scale. Anything with a spot in the eye, any blemish, anything under 550lbs was put back on my trailer and became mine. That's where the creep feeding came in. The owner pretty much demanded creep so the calves would reach weight. They were to be delivered the middle of July.

I believe we were $$$ responsible for setting up the cows. The drugs, the heat patches. When it came time to heat detect, I had the list of cows and I used highlighters in different colors to categorize the cows . So, Monday morning, all cows in heat were marked with blue. Monday evening cows were green and so on. I checked heats Monday morning, Monday evening, Tuesday morning, Tuesday evening and Wednesday morning. Generally, the cows that came in Wednesday morning were not used. It's important to keep the cows accurately identified-example: Monday morning heat from Monday evening from Tuesday morning,etc-because when she was 'in' determines the age of the egg that's implanted. Embryologist shows up about 7 days later to put eggs in. He appreciates good help and good facilities. Cross Country Genetics put in the eggs.

Make darn sure no bull can possibly get to the cows. That'll mess everything up for sure :nod: A good horse made this easier. There are also restrictions on trailering the cows. Do it immediately or you have to wait something like a month..if you are wanting to move them to summer pasture.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Each seedstock operation is going to have different protocol. Hear the other folks out before getting too set in your mind that it's going to be one way or another. You never know ... it might be life-changingly good for you and your family.

 

[Nesikep]

I think it's worth hearing them out, go with an open mind and a sharp pencil!
Lets say you get 1/3rd of the value of the calves, but the calves aren't worth 3x what your current calves are.. you're no further ahead and you'll probably screw up your calving season over it.
For safety, I'd stipulate a minimum value you get per calf, and if that bull is so great, I'd try and push for perhaps a pick of 1 out of every 10 or 20 heifers born to keep as my own or before long you're not going to have a herd to implant into. If this bull is as good as his price tag says he is, that would leave you with a nice bit of residual value in the herd for later!

 

[greatgerts]

I'm going to give my opinion from the other side. I am currently working with an outfit to raise my ET calves. I am paying $100 per cow to set up. So, if I do 10 cows, that is $1000. Then, they are palpated at 60-75 days. I pay $400 per pregnant recip at that time. When the calves hit the ground, I pay $500 per live calf. At weaning, I pay another $500 per weaned calf.
So, if a cow aborts, I don't pay after preg check. If a calf dies, I don't pay the weaning payment. It comes out to $1500 per weaned calf. That seems pretty good for the calf raiser with the market right now.
I couldn't find recip cows, get them bred, feed them, calve them, and get to weaning for $1500 each. If I had the recips, I would be doing it all myself.
Trans Ova charges like this, but instead of the $500, they are $700. The set up fee is higher too.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Trans Ova, to my knowledge, doesn't have a live calf deal. They do have a bred recip program, though. Has their deal changed in the last 9 months to include a live calf offering?

 

[TCRanch]

The only additional info I have is that they would pay us $200 over market for each live calf that makes the cut. We don't technically creep feed but we cube year 'round; hardly anything in the spring/summer when they're grazing but enough to check every cow/calf/bull every day and primarily to get the calves used to the cubes. Most of them are hand-feeders by the time we wean, all of them already eat cubes so we don't have to purchase creep/starter feed & weaning is easier on the calves (not a huge change in diet).
The biggest obstacle would be making sure the ET cows are not exposed to any of our bulls and potentially screwing up our breeding/calving operation.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I'm going to give my opinion from the other side. I am currently working with an outfit to raise my ET calves. I am paying $100 per cow to set up. So, if I do 10 cows, that is $1000. Then, they are palpated at 60-75 days. I pay $400 per pregnant recip at that time. When the calves hit the ground, I pay $500 per live calf. At weaning, I pay another $500 per weaned calf.
So, if a cow aborts, I don't pay after preg check. If a calf dies, I don't pay the weaning payment. It comes out to $1500 per weaned calf. That seems pretty good for the calf raiser with the market right now.
I couldn't find recip cows, get them bred, feed them, calve them, and get to weaning for $1500 each. If I had the recips, I would be doing it all myself.
Trans Ova charges like this, but instead of the $500, they are $700. The set up fee is higher too.

So you can use someone else's cow for 2+ months for free if it comes up open when there palpated?