Preg check accuracy

[cedar lane]

Had all the cattle preg checked on sept 17th. Everything was bred so that's a great thing.
Had two mature cows, third calf on the way, and vet called em 7 to 7 and a half months, they looking like they bout ready but nothing yet :shock: Had a heifer she called 6 mo. She had a fine bull calf 9 days ago, no problems and is bing a good momma :banana: . What's the most you ever had one to be off by??? Opinions and experiences appreciated!!! Thanks for looking
Joe Phillips
Cedar lane farms
Registered angus cattle

 

[bse]

several yrs ago i had one palpated in August to be in a sale in Sept Vet called her open ran her through sale anyway took a licking on her a guy i know bought her she calved in Nov. So ive seen it missed by a whole calf needless to say that vet has not been here since but i think most of the time there fairly close the Vet i use now says theres a period there where its real hard to tell.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Had one the vet said was open. She was a little thin and I had plenty of grass so decided to let her gain a little weight before shipping her. 2 months later, just before I was going to ship her she had a full term calf. In this case he missed her by about 7 months.

Most of the time they are within a month or so, but I understand palpation is not an exact science on the number of months they are bred.

 

[Bigfoot]

In the end it's a guess. Sometimes the guess is not that accurate.

 

[Talin]

Just got back from a palpation class it's not easy if there is a large rumen and the fetus has dropped out of the pelvis you can definitely miss.

I personally am going to use blood tests and a vet with an U/S to do orbital measurements. Palpation is just guess work and no fun definetly worth a class I learned a great deal

 

[Anonymous]

Just got back from a palpation class it's not easy if there is a large rumen and the fetus has dropped out of the pelvis you can definitely miss.

I personally am going to use blood tests and a vet with an U/S to do orbital measurements. Palpation is just guess work and no fun definetly worth a class I learned a great deal

Palpating like the blood test is a tool. Knowing when and how to use either is key.palpating isnt hard at all. 60 days is an easy call. 90-120 is a little harder because of the uterus dropping over the pelvic rim. But there's tricks to that as well. Like grabbin the cervix and trying to lift. If it feels heavy them there's weight in there. As in calf. Or feel for the uterine artery that is only present during a pregnancy. Thts where makin the staging call is difficult. But after that the calf is growing enough to feel the forehead and then staging is a little easier

 

[TexasBred]

several yrs ago i had one palpated in August to be in a sale in Sept Vet called her open ran her through sale anyway took a licking on her a guy i know bought her she calved in Nov. So ive seen it missed by a whole calf needless to say that vet has not been here since but i think most of the time there fairly close the Vet i use now says theres a period there where its real hard to tell.

Yeah...the first 3 weeks....or for some the first 2 months...after that there is no guessing to it. A miss at 3 months or more is your fault or whoever you paid to palpate for you.

 

[cow pollinater]

Anytime you ask someone to stick their arm in a cow and tell you what is going on you're leaving yourself open for error. Anyone who can say they haven't made a mistake inside of a cow hasn't been in very many. Especially when you consider that some of them are "aired up" and there is usually no coming back to them.
I work with some of the best vets in the world and I still see about two percent of my "open" cows with strings hanging out of them on ovsync day and that's with a herdsman and a clipboard standing in front of them telling them what to look for and I breed a few "pregnant" cows a day that were called at 42 days carrying, which happens to be the same as two 21 day cycles. Imagine going in with ZERO information and you can see how mistakes would multiply.
I've dealt with vets who really did a great job on animal health that couldn't find a calf to save their life and I've dealt with vets that could palpate well and you'd better just guess on your downer cows...

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

I had Avet call a cow 30 days bred. She calved the next month.
Same vet called some cows open and they went to the sale barn and that vet said they were 4-5 months bred. Luckily i sold them for reasons other than being open.

 

[TexasBred]

them telling them what to look for and I breed a few "pregnant" cows a day that were called at 42 days carrying, which happens to be the same as two 21 day cycles. Imagine going in with ZERO information and you can see how mistakes would multiply.
I've dealt with vets who really did a great job on animal health that couldn't find a calf to save their life and I've dealt with vets that could palpate well and you'd better just guess on your downer cows...

You re-breed cattle showing NO sign of estrus?? Should be good for semen sales.

 

[TexasBred]

Palpating like the blood test is a tool. Knowing when and how to use either is key.palpating isnt hard at all. 60 days is an easy call. 90-120 is a little harder because of the uterus dropping over the pelvic rim. But there's tricks to that as well. Like grabbin the cervix and trying to lift. If it feels heavy them there's weight in there. As in calf. Or feel for the uterine artery that is only present during a pregnancy. Thts where makin the staging call is difficult. But after that the calf is growing enough to feel the forehead and then staging is a little easier

The vibration in the uterine artery won't begin until the cow is between 4-5 months bred and really closer to five. Afterward the volume of blood flowing and the size of the artery will help you determine length of pregnancy. I seldom actually try to locate the calf at any stage but rather just try to find the signs of pregnancy that accompany each stage.

 

[cow pollinater]

them telling them what to look for and I breed a few "pregnant" cows a day that were called at 42 days carrying, which happens to be the same as two 21 day cycles. Imagine going in with ZERO information and you can see how mistakes would multiply.
I've dealt with vets who really did a great job on animal health that couldn't find a calf to save their life and I've dealt with vets that could palpate well and you'd better just guess on your downer cows...

You re-breed cattle showing NO sign of estrus?? Should be good for semen sales.

No, I'm saying the vet is checking cows that are open and calling them pregnant at forty days and two days later the "pregnant" cows are in heat.

 

[Anonymous]

Palpating like the blood test is a tool. Knowing when and how to use either is key.palpating isnt hard at all. 60 days is an easy call. 90-120 is a little harder because of the uterus dropping over the pelvic rim. But there's tricks to that as well. Like grabbin the cervix and trying to lift. If it feels heavy them there's weight in there. As in calf. Or feel for the uterine artery that is only present during a pregnancy. Thts where makin the staging call is difficult. But after that the calf is growing enough to feel the forehead and then staging is a little easier

The vibration in the uterine artery won't begin until the cow is between 4-5 months bred and really closer to five. Afterward the volume of blood flowing and the size of the artery will help you determine length of pregnancy. I seldom actually try to locate the calf at any stage but rather just try to find the signs of pregnancy that accompany each stage.

Thanks tb. The 100 or so I've done I wasn't feeling for a calf, but for the "signs". I thought that once the uterus dropped over the artery was a good indicator

 

[TexasBred]

The vibration in the uterine artery won't begin until the cow is between 4-5 months bred and really closer to five. Afterward the volume of blood flowing and the size of the artery will help you determine length of pregnancy. I seldom actually try to locate the calf at any stage but rather just try to find the signs of pregnancy that accompany each stage.

Thanks tb. The 100 or so I've done I wasn't feeling for a calf, but for the "signs". I thought that once the uterus dropped over the artery was a good indicator[/quote]

Absolutely. If it's simply hanging over, yet you can lift it without much effort I call them 3 months. If it's heavy...so much so that I don't really wan to try to lift it, she's at least 4....I then go for the artery to try and determine a more exact call. On the rare occasion the artery is on the left side I'm screwed. Usually ruins my arm for the day. :nod:

 

[Amo]

Well I had one that he called open and about a week latter she calved!

We are all human. He is a good vet. Thats the only time I had him make the HUGE of a error, but I do re-preg all of my opens because of that reason.

 

[Nite Hawk]

I have seen cows show signs of heat and be bred, and had cows show no signs of heat for months and be open.
The neighbor had a cow ultrasounded and was told the cow was open, a couple months later the cow was unltrasounded again and was told the cow was about 4 months or more along, and about a month later the cow calved. It definately wasn't an accurate assessment of the cows pregnancy state.
Lots of weird things can happen so preg checking both by feel and ultrasound mistakes can happen, not a perfect science. In general though someone who is good and reasonably accurate can save you alot of bucks on feed over the winter.

 

[polledbull]

sometimes if you know the time of the bull exposure , it is just better for the vet to call her bred or open rather than put the burden of calling a time on the vet. if you know the dates , most any vet can call a cow open or bred , but may struggle with putting a number on it as for how far along , especially if they dont palpate alot of cows in various stages of pregnancy. Remeber most preg checking is done at 90 days or so , so alot of vets never check many cows that are 5-7 months along .

 

[TexasBred]

I have seen cows show signs of heat and be bred, and had cows show no signs of heat for months and be open.
The neighbor had a cow ultrasounded and was told the cow was open, a couple months later the cow was unltrasounded again and was told the cow was about 4 months or more along, and about a month later the cow calved. It definately wasn't an accurate assessment of the cows pregnancy state.
Lots of weird things can happen so preg checking both by feel and ultrasound mistakes can happen, not a perfect science. In general though someone who is good and reasonably accurate can save you alot of bucks on feed over the winter.

Using either method you have to be able to interpret what you feel or see. That's where the inaccuracy comes in.