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Preconditioning and Receiving Calves

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backhoeboogie

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Innoculations are cheap. If someone has run an animal into the chute to ear tag it, likely it has also been innoculated. I'll give you that - and it lends credibility to your argument.

When I am buying cattle, ear tags are not what I am looking for.

Edit: Even if it has been tagged and the owner tells me it is innoculated, it is still going to be held separate from the herd for three weeks and innoculated. There's a lesson learned here.
 

alacattleman

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you should just post the informative article. and leave at that,,, the ear tag is a long way down the list
 

TexasBred

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SirLoin2":294yepcu said:
Tater,
Re:
Are you trying to tell us that an ear tag means the calves have been preconditioned?
NO! but it does lead me to believe it has had some human contact and has been in a chute and head gate. And that does tell me the owner at least has a chute and head gate should he elect to use it for preconditioning, or a portion thereof. At least he’s not a wean on wheels type with no facilities.
I would hope it was there for other then ear tags. Perhaps worming. Who knows? Only the owner knows the real reason. A close look at the animal will tell the true story.
SL

And that sir is where I put the britches on you.

Ok Professor, can we move on to Sex Ed for small operators???? :mrgreen:
 

showing71

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What about the calves that have ear tags, but have only had human contact once or twice? Do you pay more for them, even if they look healthy? Do you trust that because the owner has ear tags in them that they were vaccinated and dewormed?
 

mnmtranching

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Cattle feeders do indeed like to make money. They will ONLY pay what they need to, to get cattle in their lots. For sure they love to have the cow calf guy do as much of the work as possible. Do they care if you come out on all the work you do? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think it's funny that cattle buyers, feeders will try to get as much of the expense as possible done before they get the cattle. :lol: :lol:
 

Tatertot

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mnmtranching":mx7uljz3 said:
Cattle feeders do indeed like to make money. They will ONLY pay what they need to, to get cattle in their lots. For sure they love to have the cow calf guy do as much of the work as possible. Do they care if you come out on all the work you do? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think it's funny that cattle buyers, feeders will try to get as much of the expense as possible done before they get the cattle. :lol: :lol:

I almost posted earlier that this guy (sl2) has never owned and run a cow/calf operation. I'd say he has most of his experience working for somebody rather than owning his own operation. If he did ever have his own operation I'm sure he went bankrupt rather quickly.
 

ga. prime

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There are grains of truth in what Sirloin says here and in other places. Don't go overboard in finding fault.
 

Txwalt

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SirLoin2":2i2jqlnr said:
Mnm,
Re:
I think it's funny that cattle buyers, feeders will try to get as much of the expense as possible done before they get the cattle.
And when you go to buy a used car do you expect it to die on the way home, or do you expect the dealer to do what is necessary so it doesn’t?
Do you expect to have to wash and wax it and empty the ashtray after you get it home?

My friend, as they say: “you only get what you pay for” and “you should only pay for what you get”.
So you see, there is a shoe on both feet, weather it be cars or cattle!

If you are unhappy with the price you get for your cattle, there are only two places to place the blame, and one of them is NOT the buyer. What the h1ll do you expect a buyer to do, bid against himself?
The reason you are not getting what you expect either lies with you the producer or the auction barn. Now you need to figure it out the problem.
SL

What kind of credentials do you have owning and running a cow/calf operation? Since you want to tell everybody how to do it. We don't even know where you are at or from.

Walt
 

Txwalt

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I'm glad you provided us with a base so atleast we know where you are coming from.

Just because your old doesn't mean you can't contribute to the boards. :lol: Just kidding folks.

So what is your association as far as feedlots are concerned? You seem like a feedlot advocate.

Walt
 

Jogeephus

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SirLoin2":1bdokemc said:
OK people here we go.
Here is:
Johnny Rossi, Extension Animal Scientist, College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
R. Curt Lacy, Extension Agricultural Economist, College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
Mel Pence, Veterinary Field Investigator, College of Veterinary Medicine
Telling you exactly the same thing I am telling you.


Preconditioning and Receiving Calves

Because healthy calves are worth more to buyers, many are willing to pay more for healthy calves or pay less for cattle about which little is known.
In recent years, preconditioned feeder cattle marketed in truck load lots have consistently brought $3 to $10/Cwt more than the Georgia weekly average auction price for that particular week.
As this trend continues, it is very possible that cattlemen will eventually have to precondition their calves if they want to market them without being subject to substantial discounts.

And ear tags do tell the buyer a “little” information and is one of the tools they use to determine “worth”.

If you tag your cattle for any reason, no matter how poorly they look or how you have coded them, leave them in ,as they can only help your cattle‘s worth.

This is a very well written and informative article, so please take the time to read it in it’s entirety.
And keep your operation in mind to see how well it fits what buyers really want and are willing to pay for. Are you maximizing your potential profit?

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B896.htm

SL

I know all these people you are referencing and I'm sure these are their words in the context of truck load lots. Here, it is a rarity to sell a truck load lot without certain conditions being met and IF you meet these conditions and IF you sell a truck load lot you will get about a $10 premium. Whether they have tags or not doesn't matter but they had better have had their shots and they better have been weaned or your name and cattle will be slammed for quite some time. Might even get sent a vet bill. Its a very small world and it is round.

On the otherhand, I think all these authorities would agree that you will not see one dime's difference between non-conditioned and preconditioned calves at the salebarn since all are treated as though they have not had their shots. Weaned off the teet calves are easy enough to identify so there is no need to go into all the ways you lose here. Matter of fact - everyone loses here. But is it worth giving all the shots to a calf you are going to sell at a barn. I think not. Do I think you ought to. Yes. For no other reason but for the animal's health. But to imply that you are going to get more for preconditioned calves at a salebarn is misleading.

You could also read the quote you posted as a reason not to sell calves at a sale barn. Or you could also use it to point out to smaller producers the importance of forming alliances with other producers to get the numbers up. There's roughly $5000 in it if you do, not to mention the reduced sales commission, shrink and savings of time and fuel. But have you ever tried getting several producers to form an alliance and agree to use the same system? Not impossible but it is hard.

I'm going to assume that you run stockers since you have made mention about buying calves. Assuming this is true, would you not rather buy cattle straight off someone's farm that you knew they would provide you with true preconditioned calves? You'd be able to put a name with a face. Seems like this could be a win/win deal for everyone concerned. In fact, you could contract the cattle at a set weight and pay them based on the high end of the sales range for the week they are loaded. Seems like everyone could win.

But if you are only looking to buy cheap calves then semi-pre-conditioned calves will be the norm cause I don't think you will convince any small producers I know that preconditioning their animals will add a dime's difference. JMO
 

Jogeephus

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In Georgia we also have a Dr. - at Fort Valley I think - who has a network database that also pools similar producers together so they can build their numbers into loads. Never done this but it sounds like a good option.

As GP stated, there is some truth to this post so I'm not arguing with it just trying to point out why many producers have the mind set that they do. Maybe we need a thread on how the vast majority of producers can benefit from preconditioning and cite examples of specific methods we have used to overcome this problem rather than painting things with such a broad and absolute brush. I think it could be a very helpful thread.
 

Jovid

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twistedxranch":1guenwjg said:
what?":1guenwjg said:
Jogeephus":1guenwjg said:
I think all these authorities would agree that you will not see one dime's difference between non-conditioned and preconditioned calves at the salebarn since all are treated as though they have not had their shots. Weaned off the teet calves are easy enough to identify so there is no need to go into all the ways you lose here. Matter of fact - everyone loses here. But is it worth giving all the shots to a calf you are going to sell at a barn. I think not. Do I think you ought to. Yes. For no other reason but for the animal's health. But to imply that you are going to get more for preconditioned calves at a salebarn is misleading.
the state to my east sells green and gold tag calves at a premium to unconditioned calves every week at the salebarns. they also have special green and gold tag auctions. the salebarns to the north also sell preconditioned calves at a premium every week at auction, however these barns sell drafts of 50,000lbs not singles as many of you state is the common practice in the south. i think that is the reason why some of you claim you will never see a premium.

the buyer is buying pieced together cattle one here two here and so on his or her only 100% surity that all cattle will be vaccinated and steered is to use the mind set that no calves are done and all will be treated the same they will all need to see the inside of a head chute. i will agree with you that they are treated as unconditioned as well


For once I have to agree with what?

I hope you would agree with yourself
 

Douglas

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SL2 – here is what I do. I am a part time cattle farmer with 30 Angus X and have been so for several years. I do not have good handling facilities but that is next on my capital purchase list when I retire in a few years. I have an old chute and pen but not headgate or squeeze chute. Now I am fencing off ponds and putting in waterers and improving my pasture. We were primarily row crop until ’95.
I move my cows and calves with feed, never rush them around, just walk with a white bucket and they go wherever I want. I do not give any shots. I only retain my own heifers and bring in a new bull ever 3 or 4 years. I wean early and utilize creep grazing. My calves are preconditioned one to two months and fed dewormer and never had any diseases that I know of. I have lost 1 calf in 6 years to drowning. I feel like I must have pretty health cows. My primary desire for handling facilities is to improve my accounting, make better cull decisions, and make some of my bulls steers.
I am guessing I am pretty typical of the small part-time producer in North Carolina. I suspect my calves are just about as healthy as others. I usually get prices above average at the sale barn. But they don’t have tags.
Where I agree with you is that calf producers that can better prepare they stock for the next production phase should be rewarded for that. I would like to be one of those guys someday.
 

grannysoo

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Douglas":1fcq8o2r said:
SL2 – here is what I do. I am a part time cattle farmer with 30 Angus X and have been so for several years. I do not have good handling facilities but that is next on my capital purchase list when I retire in a few years. I have an old chute and pen but not headgate or squeeze chute. Now I am fencing off ponds and putting in waterers and improving my pasture. We were primarily row crop until ’95.
I move my cows and calves with feed, never rush them around, just walk with a white bucket and they go wherever I want. I do not give any shots. I only retain my own heifers and bring in a new bull ever 3 or 4 years. I wean early and utilize creep grazing. My calves are preconditioned one to two months and fed dewormer and never had any diseases that I know of. I have lost 1 calf in 6 years to drowning. I feel like I must have pretty health cows. My primary desire for handling facilities is to improve my accounting, make better cull decisions, and make some of my bulls steers.
I am guessing I am pretty typical of the small part-time producer in North Carolina. I suspect my calves are just about as healthy as others. I usually get prices above average at the sale barn. But they don’t have tags.
Where I agree with you is that calf producers that can better prepare they stock for the next production phase should be rewarded for that. I would like to be one of those guys someday.

I think this sums up a lot of the people here.

The entire conversation that is being had can be useful and you can learn from it, but many times it's just worded in a manner that is just pi$$y. SL2 - your signature sums that up pretty well....

Many times, it's not what you say, it's the manner in which you say it. But do as you will. It's all on you.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Douglas":k3qbq5gm said:
SL2 – here is what I do. I am a part time cattle farmer with 30 Angus X and have been so for several years. I do not have good handling facilities but that is next on my capital purchase list when I retire in a few years. I have an old chute and pen but not headgate or squeeze chute. Now I am fencing off ponds and putting in waterers and improving my pasture. We were primarily row crop until ’95.
I move my cows and calves with feed, never rush them around, just walk with a white bucket and they go wherever I want. I do not give any shots. I only retain my own heifers and bring in a new bull ever 3 or 4 years. I wean early and utilize creep grazing. My calves are preconditioned one to two months and fed dewormer and never had any diseases that I know of. I have lost 1 calf in 6 years to drowning. I feel like I must have pretty health cows. My primary desire for handling facilities is to improve my accounting, make better cull decisions, and make some of my bulls steers.
I am guessing I am pretty typical of the small part-time producer in North Carolina. I suspect my calves are just about as healthy as others. I usually get prices above average at the sale barn. But they don’t have tags.
Where I agree with you is that calf producers that can better prepare they stock for the next production phase should be rewarded for that. I would like to be one of those guys someday.
Yes, there are a lot of producers like you. You pretty much have a closed herd, no health problems. You say you don't give shots but you also said you precondition 1-2 months??? Precondition includes giving shots, so I'm not sure what you are saying.
But, since you have a closed herd, your calves have very little NATURAL immunities. Same with other producers with closed herds with no diseases or exposure to "new" bugs.
Now, you take your calves and pen them with someone else's "healthy" calves - and they all get sick. They do not have any immunites from whatever natural bugs live in each others herd.
All cattle have bugs. They are immune to them because the dam has the same bugs & she passes the immunity to her calf thru colostrum.
Therefore, shots are needed to build immunites to potential new exposures.
 

backhoeboogie

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It is hard to imagine what a person would do without facilities if something like pink eye broke out in your herd. It happened to me over the winter - with primarily brangus cattle.

Maybe my problem is cattle all around me. Two places adjoin me on the west, one on the north, and one on the south. The east side is the Brazos and hobby owned and other cows bust out on the river regularly. Some bust my fence so even that side becomes a concern.

Flies are a real issue in the summer. They can spread illness.

Practically everyone who adjoins me has other cattle owners adjoining them on the other sides.

Without treatment, cows would have become blind by pink eye. Without innoculations, who knows what they would catch from across the fences.

Even tho one fence will almost hold water, that neighbor's angus bull will jump his fence on the road and circle thru three pastures to get into mine. I assume he does the same thing on the opposite side of his pastures onto neighbors on that side. Hence, I see no such thing as a "closed herd" and cannot comprehend the concept.

Wild life of every type will drink from stock tanks. They roam from property to property. They can spread anything onto your property.

For you folks who have no working facilities, are you isolated from neighbors with cattle?
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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Backhoe - you are so right. And, actually, your cattle & all your neighbors cattle "share" the same bugs. So they have a good "base" of bugs.
But, you (not meaning you personally) sell your calves & a feedlot buys them & puts them with cattle from "where ever" and they have different bugs. Yup, they get sick.
People with livestock that don't have proper facilities are waiting for a disaster. No matter how "healthy" your herd is - sooner or later, you need to be able to confine them & put your hands on them.
 

alacattleman

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what?":5wsttle0 said:
Jogeephus":5wsttle0 said:
I think all these authorities would agree that you will not see one dime's difference between non-conditioned and preconditioned calves at the salebarn since all are treated as though they have not had their shots. Weaned off the teet calves are easy enough to identify so there is no need to go into all the ways you lose here. Matter of fact - everyone loses here. But is it worth giving all the shots to a calf you are going to sell at a barn. I think not. Do I think you ought to. Yes. For no other reason but for the animal's health. But to imply that you are going to get more for preconditioned calves at a salebarn is misleading.
the state to my east sells green and gold tag calves at a premium to unconditioned calves every week at the salebarns. they also have special green and gold tag auctions. the salebarns to the north also sell preconditioned calves at a premium every week at auction, however these barns sell drafts of 50,000lbs not singles as many of you state is the common practice in the south. i think that is the reason why some of you claim you will never see a premium.

the buyer is buying pieced together cattle one here two here and so on his or her only 100% surity that all cattle will be vaccinated and steered is to use the mind set that no calves are done and all will be treated the same they will all need to see the inside of a head chute. i will agree with you that they are treated as unconditioned as well
we have a man that moved here from kansas.. he'll buy you'r calves strait off the farm, background's himself then ship em too his family fedlot it kansas.. he's got calves on every avalible ground around.
 
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