Pot belly calves..

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jdcopkid said:
Also says "In order to maintain a 365-day calving interval, calves should be early weaned at less than 80 days of age. About 40 days of age may be a practical minimum for early weaning in beef herds. Calves at least 40 days old do not require milk replacers in the ration and are old enough to eat dry feed."

So I don't know any better since I've never birthed calves, but you said you still maintain the calving window so I guess either I'm confused or they are wrong lol
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BS.... 40 days is not old enough to do without milk replacer.... they are not near ready for just dry feed... That is crap.....
 
farmerjan said:
No offense, but that is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever read.... early weaning at 40 days... I don't know what university ever published that,,, honestly, please post a link.
A cow will have a calf every 365 days IF..... she has an uneventful pregnancy and normal delivery with no problems. She is in decent condition... not roly poly fat.... she will feed her calf, and should start showing a heat cycle in anywhere from 30 to 45-60 days... If she breeds at about 3 months into her lactation, she will carry for 9 months and deliver another healthy calf 12 months from the time she had the current calf.
There is absolutely NO reason for weaning a calf at 40 days to get her to come into heat and get bred to deliver another calf at 365 day intervals... I have never heard of anything so LUDICROUS...
WHY would any university espouse to take away the most natural calf raising machine in the form of the cow to just breed her...
Unless the cow is sick, or for some reason totally unable to make milk to feed that calf... there is NO REASON on GOD'S GREEN EARTH, to take a calf away ... the cow will naturally get bred back if her health is good and condition is good and the bull is fertile... 99.99999% of the time. WHILE DOING HER JOB AND FEEDING HER CALF.....
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I think it was pointed out that I took the articles out of context. Unfortunately just sat at the sale barn yesterday and the auctioneer was deciding to split calves from their moms and sell as singles super young.
 
Read those articles and the biggest thing they were trying to say is if you wean early, you can feed a lesser quality feed to the cow since she will have a lower nutrient requirement if she is not lactating.. and stressed .... that it was for mostly drought stressed situations...
BUT.... the did not talk about the ACTUAL COST that it will take to get the calf up and going... and let me tell you something after having a friend that is involved in one of the land grant colleges that do all these "experiments" ..... they do not worry about the cost to the calf in the long run.... these are just that... experimental studies to prove that it "can be done"... not that it is a practical reality for 99% of the farmers.
That is a bunch of hog wash for nearly all situations.... sure, anyone can do it... he// you are doing it... with yours... and actually they are doing good considering....

And by the way, after looking at the first videos of the calves when you got them... I can honestly say you did one bang up job getting them to look as decent as they do... they were not weaned calves, they were pulled off their mommas, for whatever reasons, as babies... I would say they were not 8 weeks old or so... NO WHERE NEAR ready to be weaned... maybe they were just culling cows due to lack of feed or whatever... but those calves should have been on a high protein mostly grain diet right off the bat... with limited hay of the best quality grass hay you could find..... I will bet they did not weigh in the 200-250 lb range.....

Sorry, this got my dander up a bit. Would you feed your kid just "dry food" at the equivalent of 6 months or a year old???? No bottle of milk after 6 months old or something??? that is what pulling a calf off a cow at that size is like.
Understand that sometimes calves will not take a bottle after being on a cow for 6-8 weeks... and I get that it might be very hard to get them to suck... that is where the straddling, and backing them in a corner and forcing the situation for many feeding sometimes will eventually get the light bulb to come on... OH, THIS TASTES GOOD..... because a bottle is nothing like a real teat.... But the alternative is good calf ration grain... good protein, and some very "soft " bladey kind of grass hay....


We wean in the 7-9 month old calf age range, and most cows will be bred and ready to calve right back at the 365 day range... and the cow did all the work to get that calf to weaning size and after a few days of being mad that they don't have momma, will go to eating and never miss a lick.
Bulls go in with the cows at approx 60 days after they have calved... and for the most part they are cycling then. Always some exceptions... but I would rather feed the cow even in drought conditions to get the calf up to 4-5 months before considering weaning off the calf... and they would have to be going into a creep feeder so they know what feed is and can transition easier...
In your case of bought calves, they should have been put immediately on some good 16-18% calf feed, molasses added for some sweetness and fast digestible energy.... to get them to transition to feed... and I would have been doing my dam#@dest to get them to take a bottle and feeding them at least once a day on milk for another couple of weeks as they got used to "real feed".
 
jdcopkid said:
I think it was pointed out that I took the articles out of context. Unfortunately just sat at the sale barn yesterday and the auctioneer was deciding to split calves from their moms and sell as singles super young.
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They do that alot as most that buy those calves off the cows, if they do not go home to someone to bottle raise, will go on farms that raise calves for a living and they will go on a gang feeder so they will still get milk. If a cow is big and heavy, and the calf is small, they will often bring more being split... NOT ideal, but a way of life.... the seller wants the most for his sale... and the auctioneer is experienced enough to know what way they should bring the most money...
And baby calf prices are totally insane right now... 3 day olds are bringing $600 to 1,000 a head......
 
With a little studying you can come up with a good ration for calves that little that they will do well on.

I have bought calves that size, they take a good level of nutrition to do well and time to get big.
 
jdcopkid said:
I think it was pointed out that I took the articles out of context. Unfortunately just sat at the sale barn yesterday and the auctioneer was deciding to split calves from their moms and sell as singles super young.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they do that because there are people that will pay a lot for a calf and spend a lot of money and time bottle feeding it. If they'd sell the calf first and a guy could buy it and then buy the cow for slaughter prices so they could go back in the pasture together it might worth buying the calf. But they always seem to sell the cow first and then if you want the calf there's a bidding war and you've paid too much for the calf or you have a cow without a calf.

Of course with calves at the current high prices there's no way to come out on it.
 
farmerjan said:
Read those articles and the biggest thing they were trying to say is if you wean early, you can feed a lesser quality feed to the cow since she will have a lower nutrient requirement if she is not lactating.. and stressed .... that it was for mostly drought stressed situations...
BUT.... the did not talk about the ACTUAL COST that it will take to get the calf up and going... and let me tell you something after having a friend that is involved in one of the land grant colleges that do all these "experiments" ..... they do not worry about the cost to the calf in the long run.... these are just that... experimental studies to prove that it "can be done"... not that it is a practical reality for 99% of the farmers.
That is a bunch of hog wash for nearly all situations.... sure, anyone can do it... he// you are doing it... with yours... and actually they are doing good considering....

And by the way, after looking at the first videos of the calves when you got them... I can honestly say you did one bang up job getting them to look as decent as they do... they were not weaned calves, they were pulled off their mommas, for whatever reasons, as babies... I would say they were not 8 weeks old or so... NO WHERE NEAR ready to be weaned... maybe they were just culling cows due to lack of feed or whatever... but those calves should have been on a high protein mostly grain diet right off the bat... with limited hay of the best quality grass hay you could find..... I will bet they did not weigh in the 200-250 lb range.....

Sorry, this got my dander up a bit. Would you feed your kid just "dry food" at the equivalent of 6 months or a year old???? No bottle of milk after 6 months old or something??? that is what pulling a calf off a cow at that size is like.
Understand that sometimes calves will not take a bottle after being on a cow for 6-8 weeks... and I get that it might be very hard to get them to suck... that is where the straddling, and backing them in a corner and forcing the situation for many feeding sometimes will eventually get the light bulb to come on... OH, THIS TASTES GOOD..... because a bottle is nothing like a real teat.... But the alternative is good calf ration grain... good protein, and some very "soft " bladey kind of grass hay....


We wean in the 7-9 month old calf age range, and most cows will be bred and ready to calve right back at the 365 day range... and the cow did all the work to get that calf to weaning size and after a few days of being mad that they don't have momma, will go to eating and never miss a lick.
Bulls go in with the cows at approx 60 days after they have calved... and for the most part they are cycling then. Always some exceptions... but I would rather feed the cow even in drought conditions to get the calf up to 4-5 months before considering weaning off the calf... and they would have to be going into a creep feeder so they know what feed is and can transition easier...
In your case of bought calves, they should have been put immediately on some good 16-18% calf feed, molasses added for some sweetness and fast digestible energy.... to get them to transition to feed... and I would have been doing my dam#@dest to get them to take a bottle and feeding them at least once a day on milk for another couple of weeks as they got used to "real feed".
Click to expand...
I appreciate the candor and advice. I clearly didn't know what I was looking for when I bought these. My lack of knowledge was taken advantage of but that's ok, I've learned SO much. I hate that the calves suffered, I want the best for them and never want to lose one so I'll do my darndest to keep them going strong and get them on the right track. I've spent countless hours trying to figure this out the last month or so
 
Allenw said:
With a little studying you can come up with a good ration for calves that little that they will do well on.

I have bought calves that size, they take a good level of nutrition to do well and time to get big.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm working on. Been calling feed stores, A&M, UNL beef.. unfortunately I can't find much bulk feed that is in the 18% range. I have a place close but they only sell in 50# bags so I might have to do that. I was trying to work it out with the dried distiller grains and I still might be able to but takes a lot more care in insuring they are getting the correct vitamins and minerals
 
Travlr said:
Yeah, they do that because there are people that will pay a lot for a calf and spend a lot of money and time bottle feeding it. If they'd sell the calf first and a guy could buy it and then buy the cow for slaughter prices so they could go back in the pasture together it might worth buying the calf. But they always seem to sell the cow first and then if you want the calf there's a bidding war and you've paid too much for the calf or you have a cow without a calf.

Of course with calves at the current high prices there's no way to come out on it.
Click to expand...
Yea prices are insane. For these 10 I paid about 600 a head. I'll definitely post my success or failures with these and let y'all know how it all turns out. Fingers crossed my next round won't be so difficult since I'll have learned a thing or two
 
JJColvin said:
Happened to me. I lost a cow to anemic and the vet told me I left the calf on too long. Told me "nowadays we recommend weaning at 3 months". So I had 18 calves the next year and weaned the all at 3 months give or take a week and everyone of them potbellied.
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You need a new vet if they are recommending to wean at 3 months. That is about as stupid of a recommendation as I have ever heard.
 
puzzled in oregon said:
Good or bad, when I buy something they get vaccinated and wormed no matter what the seller/auction barn say has been done.
Click to expand...
Yep. When i get something at the sale, I have them put them in the vet pen, and tell him to "give them the works", Usually the price he charges at the sale, are about as cheap as I could buy it myself.
 
farmerjan said:
Read those articles and the biggest thing they were trying to say is if you wean early, you can feed a lesser quality feed to the cow since she will have a lower nutrient requirement if she is not lactating.. and stressed .... that it was for mostly drought stressed situations...
BUT.... the did not talk about the ACTUAL COST that it will take to get the calf up and going... and let me tell you something after having a friend that is involved in one of the land grant colleges that do all these "experiments" ..... they do not worry about the cost to the calf in the long run.... these are just that... experimental studies to prove that it "can be done"... not that it is a practical reality for 99% of the farmers.
That is a bunch of hog wash for nearly all situations.... sure, anyone can do it... he// you are doing it... with yours... and actually they are doing good considering....

And by the way, after looking at the first videos of the calves when you got them... I can honestly say you did one bang up job getting them to look as decent as they do... they were not weaned calves, they were pulled off their mommas, for whatever reasons, as babies... I would say they were not 8 weeks old or so... NO WHERE NEAR ready to be weaned... maybe they were just culling cows due to lack of feed or whatever... but those calves should have been on a high protein mostly grain diet right off the bat... with limited hay of the best quality grass hay you could find..... I will bet they did not weigh in the 200-250 lb range.....

Sorry, this got my dander up a bit. Would you feed your kid just "dry food" at the equivalent of 6 months or a year old???? No bottle of milk after 6 months old or something??? that is what pulling a calf off a cow at that size is like.
Understand that sometimes calves will not take a bottle after being on a cow for 6-8 weeks... and I get that it might be very hard to get them to suck... that is where the straddling, and backing them in a corner and forcing the situation for many feeding sometimes will eventually get the light bulb to come on... OH, THIS TASTES GOOD..... because a bottle is nothing like a real teat.... But the alternative is good calf ration grain... good protein, and some very "soft " bladey kind of grass hay....


We wean in the 7-9 month old calf age range, and most cows will be bred and ready to calve right back at the 365 day range... and the cow did all the work to get that calf to weaning size and after a few days of being mad that they don't have momma, will go to eating and never miss a lick.
Bulls go in with the cows at approx 60 days after they have calved... and for the most part they are cycling then. Always some exceptions... but I would rather feed the cow even in drought conditions to get the calf up to 4-5 months before considering weaning off the calf... and they would have to be going into a creep feeder so they know what feed is and can transition easier...
In your case of bought calves, they should have been put immediately on some good 16-18% calf feed, molasses added for some sweetness and fast digestible energy.... to get them to transition to feed... and I would have been doing my dam#@dest to get them to take a bottle and feeding them at least once a day on milk for another couple of weeks as they got used to "real feed".
Click to expand...
I will take this advice to heart! Thank you.
They are spunking up a bit today

 
Early weaning at 10-12 weeks of age can be a very usefull drought strategy, it is certainly part of my strategy and I don't wait until the cows are under duress. I weaned them down to 8 wks in 2018 and had them on a 14% grain mix while grazing my home paddocks. They did very well, no pot bellies, of the 9 heifers I retained 8 are still in my herd and are some of my best cows now.

Ken
 
@wbvs58 .... I agree with the strategy you had, weaning early for severe drought conditions... THE DIFFERENCE is that YOU know what you are doing, understand nutritional needs...Being a vet, I would bet you may have been creep feeding the calves so they knew what feed was? And your cows were not in a "declining" situation....
Your calves were not yanked off the cows, shipped, co-mingled, exposed to who knows what different "germs" at the place they were at...and then shipped off again to someone that did not know how to do things.... that is not putting down @jdcopkid ... who readily admitted that they did not know....
I mostly feed a 14% calf ration, that is balanced for calves with the added vit and minerals in it. They do good on it. The reason I said 16% is these calves are trying to get the nutrition their bodies are craving from the hay and hence the hay bellies. A higher protein like 16% would help to get them to utilize it with a little less bulk right off the bat.
Too much protein will just make them loose like scours and that is wasted money on the ground also. One of the things that dairy farmers monitor for so closely... get too loose manure and they drop back the protein.
 
jdcopkid said:
That's what I'm working on. Been calling feed stores, A&M, UNL beef.. unfortunately I can't find much bulk feed that is in the 18% range. I have a place close but they only sell in 50# bags so I might have to do that. I was trying to work it out with the dried distiller grains and I still might be able to but takes a lot more care in insuring they are getting the correct vitamins and minerals
Click to expand...
If you are working with a feed mill that makes their own feed up... they can make a calf ration... get 14-16% ration but get a calf ration so it addresses the needs of a growing calf. It doesn't have to be 18%, at this rate, and as big as they are, 14 or 16 % will do fine... but it is going to take time for them to lose their hay bellies... Which are not as bad as some I have seen.
 
farmerjan said:
Not sure what you are thinking is happening... watched it a couple times... calf is simply chewing it's cud....
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What was happening is the green fluid dripping out of his mouth when he was chewing his cudd. It would just drip drip drip uncontrollably. It wasn't eventually described to me that his stomach was upset. Gave him a little probiotics and never happened again
 

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