Poor udder attachment in heifers

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Rosielou

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This year we experienced our first with poor udder attachment in a first calver. She has a nice sized bag, nice teats, nice sized calf that is growing at the same pace as the others, but the back two teats/half of the bag is lower than the front. We're strictly commercial, take calves to sale barn, etc. Should I and wait and see if the calf grows off normal and wait until next year? Is this something that can grow better with a second calf, or should it effect her calf at all? I'm asking because this is the first that we've experienced with it. Thanks in advance.
 
In my experience that won't get better with the next calf, but they i have had some for years and they never have to much trouble raising a calf, so i would just see how she does and go from there.
 
If they aren;t so low that the calf can;t nurse she should raise a calf just fine. That may be as poor as her udder will be for years. Some start that way and don;t seem to deteriate others get worse every year. If you have a promising heifer calf to take her place you might want to think about replacing her when you wean her calf
 
Thank you both for the advice. It's not so low that the calf can't nurse, but it's not the best to look at. This year's calf was a bull, so I guess we'll see how he weans and does at the sale. Also, could this be considered genetic or is it just a flaw, or both? Her mother has a nice bag, so this was really unexpected.
 
2 animals contributed to the heifers genetics. It could bbe a throwback to one of her ancestors or it could have been the bull, or it cvould be just the luck of the draw that everything lined up wrong.
 
Rosielou":39jwvcwn said:
Thank you both for the advice. It's not so low that the calf can't nurse, but it's not the best to look at. This year's calf was a bull, so I guess we'll see how he weans and does at the sale. Also, could this be considered genetic or is it just a flaw, or both? Her mother has a nice bag, so this was really unexpected.

Form, structure and function in animals is dictated almost w/o exception by genetics. I cannot take credit for this concept, it has been discussed since Gregor Mendel in the mid-19th century started investigating inheritance. That is not to say that the environment cannot affect the form of a part of the body, i.e., a blacksmith's rough, callosed hands because of the work they perform day after day. But a blacksmith's hands take the basic form dictated by the information packed in his/her genome. I don't want to start a big debate because that has already occurred by people who study this for their entire life and it is a fundamental concept in the science of genetics. The safest answer to your question would be to say "there is genetic material in the genome of this cow that made her predisposed to the udder form and function that you have observed." As dun said, it may have come from anywhere in her ancestory. It may not appear again for 10 generations, that is all speculation.

I want to state why I said "almost w/o exception." An animals form, structure, and function as dictated by its inherited material may be altered, damaged, etc. by disease or injury. For example, if a cow gets into barbed wire and cuts an udder off; form and function as dictated by what was in the genome is now the result of injury. Likewise, mastitis will alter the form and function of the mammary gland and thus, form and function is now the result of the disease.
 
I would keep her for as long as her udder holds up/out. Like others have said, she might last for years or not. You already have $$ invested in her, either by raising her or buying her. You could cut your losses now (or when you wean her) or you can keep her around and hopefully she will last for enough years to pay for herself. Her calf is growing and probably will do as well as any of the others. I wouldn't keep any heifer calves out of her (although we have done so in the past and it has worked out, but there is a genetic reason for her udder, and there would be a chance that her calves might have the same udder structure as her.
 
If she does a good job of raising a calf I'd keep her. At least as long as the teats didn't hang lower than the hocks.
 
That's where a good culling program and keeping plenty of replacement heifers is a must. Cows don't always pass on all their traits to the daughter. I like to compare cattle to people sometimes, I know a woman who is in her 70's now who is very well endowed in the breast dept., but her daughter is as flat as a 2x4 and her daughter also is flat as a 2x4, go figure...... :roll:
 
inyati13, thank you for your input, I enjoyed reading! I had known that bad genetics can be thrown around in a gene pool, as colors can, but I wasn't sure about udder attachment. How long does the possibility last that a wild gene can get thrown in/passed down before it is bred out? Or is there always a possibility of things like this? Sorry for asking so many questions, pretty much anything and everything about genetics interests me.

TennesseeTuxedo, I have read Milkmaid's post about health issues, but a thread discussing only udders would definitely be useful.

But I should've figured as much that this /could/ be genetic, but oh well, it's the first we've experienced. Although, this is the first heifer we've kept out of her mom because she usually gives us bull calves. Fortunately, her udder does not hang lower than her hocks.

Banjo, :lol: love that analogy! Fits with cattle just as well!
 
Rosielou: Thank you, your response is rewarding. The post above is a fundamental comment on a concept in the science of genetics. It is not specifically addressed to the issue of udder attachment. But this subject and your questions can be addressed in fundamental genetic terms. I would not want you to think "bad genetics" are thrown around. If they are in the genomes of mating animals, there are precise processes controlling where they end up. First, in the process of forming the sex cells (egg and sperm), then which the egg in an animals ovary is going through maturation and ruptures forth from the ovary on a 20 day cycle in a cow. Then there is the "luck of the draw" of which of the millions of sperm cells that get to penetrate the egg cell wall to begin the formation of the zygote.

Udder attachment, shape, size, color, texture, etc. is dictated by the genetic material in each cell. As each cell divides during the embryonic development, the DNA is telling the cell how to build proteins, fats, carbohydrates, etc. My son is working on his PhD on nothing but how proteins are built to demonstrate how complex this can be (gives the ole man a chance to brag, too).

It would not be possible w/o doing genetic mapping of the individual to know how long an undesirable gene will stay in the genome of a cow. But when you say gene pool, you are talking about the entire pool of genes in a population. That population could be the cows in your herd, the cows in your county, or all the cows on the planet. The concept of a breeding program is still the same as Mendel used 200 years ago. You cross breed, identify phenotypes that are undesirable, and try to eliminate them. At the same time, you look for the phenotypes that you want and favor them. There would always be a potential of the undesirable gene being cloaked in the genome by desirable traits.

I see misinformation on this board about genetics. But that happens even among geneticists. Breeding is not a pure science. It is not being conducted in a laboratory with fruit flies where all the genomes are mapped. Nevertheless, there are fundamental concepts of genetics that if a breeder does not have a working knowledge of, he/she could be making mistakes.

Let me say again to protect myself, these are genetic concepts that apply to all animals. You can apply it to udder attachment. But as a disclaimer, I am not a student of udder morphology, physiology, or anatomy. In particular, none of us posting have seen the condition that is the subject of the original post.

PS. Gregor Mendel, was not the father of breeding. He was the first one to use terms related to where the inherited traits were originating. It is general knowledge that selective Breeding is as old as animal husbandry. I noticed in reading the post that I could have been more clear on that!
 
Rosielou,
If you were shopping for dairy semen, you would find the quality of the daughter's udders (udder attachment and support) listed in the EPD's
I found these images online. Beef cattle are represented.

udder_panel4.gif


udder-score-reference.jpg


Rear%20View.jpg
 
chippie, thanks for finding that. I had to cull a cow because she had udders about like the one rated #1. A couple of the udders were so large that the calf could not nurse them and she was prone to getting mastitis.

Rosielou, the illustration posted by chippie demonstrates the variation in form that occurs in cows udders. That order of variety is a function of the genetic diversity that occurs in every organism from an amoeba to a Homo sapien. In the breeding and production of cattle, we are actually trying to narrow that diversity to favor those traits that we covet.
 
inyati13":oxrn2090 said:
chippie, thanks for finding that. I had to cull a cow because she had udders about like the one rated #1. A couple of the udders were so large that the calf could not nurse them and she was prone to getting mastitis.

Rosielou, the illustration posted by chippie demonstrates the variation in form that occurs in cows udders. That order of variety is a function of the genetic diversity that occurs in every organism from an amoeba to a Homo sapien. In the breeding and production of cattle, we are actually trying to narrow that diversity to favor those traits that we covet.
With multiple udders no wonder you had to cull her
 
inyati13":36s9kvar said:
chippie, thanks for finding that. I had to cull a cow because she had udders about like the one rated #1. A couple of the udders were so large that the calf could not nurse them and she was prone to getting mastitis.

Rosielou, the illustration posted by chippie demonstrates the variation in form that occurs in cows udders. That order of variety is a function of the genetic diversity that occurs in every organism from an amoeba to a Homo sapien. In the breeding and production of cattle, we are actually trying to narrow that diversity to favor those traits that we covet.

A cow has one udder and it is divided into quarters. Do you mean the #5 cow in the first image?

This link is A Guide to Udder and Teat Scoring in Beef Cows

http://en.engormix.com/MA-beef-cattle/healt/articles/guide-udder-teat-scoring_1281.htm
 

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