Polled Hereford Semen

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Let's go for 20 pages!

Herefordsire,

Why are you worried about "clamping" one trait while maximizing others that are highly correlated? If you restrict one, it will slow down your progress in the others. It seems like you are all about progress, so I don't want to slow you down.


Badlands
 
IF you got majority board agreement, it wouldn't mean that we were right!! We can't define it because we don't know how to prevent a mating from going "bad". It is SEX, you completely at random take one gene from each gene pair in a bull and mix it with a gene from the corresponding gene pair in a cow, umpteen mutations and crossing over events occurr and WALLA you have a unique individual who will never be repeated again even if you repeated the process a thousand times. Outliers are almost an inevitable product of such a risky biological process.

Good point about the majority! I agree.

I agree on the mixing also. However, when successive generations of linebreding occurs, doesn't majority the of all gene get switched to "on" or homo instead of hetero? Even if there were all "on" each one would be unique if we look close enough because there are still variances. Correct? What I am secretly hiding (shhhh, is I believe one great great animal can be derived just the same as an albino can be derived (a very special unique mutation). True, it may take millions of iterations. On the other hand, it may only take one iteration. Regardless, line breeding results make the bell more narrow tus we create cattle more predictable and sound and healthy provided we cull the heck out of 'em. Heck, we have to eat don't we?


The outliers convert toward the median, correct?
 
HerefordSire":1crq5t6y said:
What I am secretly hiding (shhhh, is I believe one great great animal can be derived just the same as an albino can be derived (a very special unique mutation).

Give me one hundred good cows, ten semen sires, and I will show you ONE great one just about every third year. That freaky calf that just blows the doors off of whatever numerical standards you have set for him in individual performance and looks good doing it. You don't have to have a college degree or be a great cattleman to produce him. Statistically he WILL happen. Then everybody gets excited. They spend thousands of $$$s showing him, marketing him, promoting him. Now when he breeds his 100 cows he may be a complete dud and never repeat himself, he might throw several great ones and a lot of disappointing ones, and he might even live up to all the hype and consistently produce the kind of cattle that the breeder wants him to produce (and not every breeder has the same goals).
 
Badlands":mfm56nbd said:
Let's go for 20 pages!

Herefordsire,

Why are you worried about "clamping" one trait while maximizing others that are highly correlated? If you restrict one, it will slow down your progress in the others. It seems like you are all about progress, so I don't want to slow you down.


Badlands

Badlands, if we take two line bred bulls (be patient with me):

The first bull has a -5.0 EPD and very low WW.
The second bull has a 120 WW and very high BW.
We line breed these bull's progeny for 20 years focusing on the best one animal derived from each bull's line, specifically, low BW with the BW line and high WW with the WW line.

After 20 years, we combine the best animals of the two line bred lines.

What do you think will happen? In other words, is it possible to have one animal with a very very low birth weight and a very very high weaning weight even though they are highly correlated traits?
 
Give me one hundred good cows, ten semen sires, and I will show you ONE great one just about every third year. That freaky calf that just blows the doors off of whatever numerical standards you have set for him in individual performance and looks good doing it. You don't have to have a college degree or be a great cattleman to produce him. Statistically he WILL happen. Then everybody gets excited. They spend thousands of $$$s showing him, marketing him, promoting him. Now when he breeds his 100 cows he may be a complete dud and never repeat himself, he might throw several great ones and a lot of disappointing ones, and he might even live up to all the hype and consistently produce the kind of cattle that the breeder wants him to produce (and not every breeder has the same goals).


Very interesting. :idea: So if I multiply 300 cows to 30 bulls each year and I cull all of the animals except one and keep the one great one each year and do this for 20 years (20 animals minus deaths), how long will it take before I make my first million in the purebred cattle business? Can I be on RFD TV? Could I buy a private island then and a small jet to get there? 8)
 
Reread my post. I never promised you that you would ever actually make money!!! Just that periodically, you would get a calf that we would get all excited about. Which of those GREAT calves will be great sires and which will turn out to be average and which will turn out to be total duds. Take the example of the aforementioned ACE Broker bull. He was the biggest bull anybody had ever seen and he came along when everybody wanted Herefords who would tower over those Simmentals and Charolais. He won his national championship and became the bull of choice for many cattlemen. Hundreds of daughters later, he had a milk EPD of MINUS 25. Reed will still sell you the semen for $10 a straw.
 
Brandonm2":3837vi4o said:
Reread my post. I never promised you that you would ever actually make money!!! Just that periodically, you would get a calf that we would get all excited about. Which of those GREAT calves will be great sires and which will turn out to be average and which will turn out to be total duds. Take the example of the aforementioned ACE Broker bull. He was the biggest bull anybody had ever seen and he came along when everybody wanted Herefords who would tower over those Simmentals and Charolais. He won his national championship and became the bull of choice for many cattlemen. Hundreds of daughters later, he had a milk EPD of MINUS 25. Reed will still sell you the semen for $10 a straw.

-25 MM EPD? Wow! What would suck the milk out of his haram like that?

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 3&9=5E5359

How come his sire and dam is not listed?
 
Something is wrong with the Hereford database today. He had a whole pedigree here LAST WEEK. I don't remember who his sire was (a bull I am not familiar with if my memory serves); but both grandmothers were Enforcer daughters.
 
I looked it up at Reed's. His sire was EMPIRES EQUALIZER 400 a 15G grandson. I can't see anything in the pedigree that would suggest that Broker would be one of the worst milk sires in the history of the Hereford breed; but it is hard to argue with the data from ~600 daughters.
 
Brandonm2":257k52v9 said:
I looked it up at Reed's. His sire was EMPIRES EQUALIZER 400 a 15G grandson. I can't see anything in the pedigree that would suggest that Broker would be one of the worst milk sires in the history of the Hereford breed; but it is hard to argue with the data from ~600 daughters.

The database viewer is still not showing the parents properly as I just checked. For a bull to register -25 for MM (for 600?), does this imply the recorded progeny were very very very small (dinkers) at weaning time compared to others? If so, how small do you reckon?
 
I realize that this post has been dead for quite a while but I just stumbled upon it and thought I might as well jump in. Maximillian's numbers are extremely inaccurate. He has had 61 progeny throughout his 8 year lifespan. Of those 61 calves, 35 bulls and cows were never used, 6 were culled after only having at most 2 calves, and 4 heifers have yet to have calves. So we are looking at 16 progeny that were and still are being used and only 1 bull has been used. So his numbers do not reflect how he will pass his gaudy EPD's to his progeny. So obviously his owners felt that he was not worth selling his semen or using naturally.
 
I think if Maximillian were born in ~1985, he could have been one of the most sought after sires of his day. In this decade, frame 7.4 is just high enough to scare enough people away that promoting him heavily would be seen as risky. Those EPDs in a 6.5 frame package would have been more attractive.
 
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