polled calf with horn buds

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LMCR

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I have a herd of polled registered cattle and one the the calves had a square top to her head, now I see that she has horn buds. How can this happen?
Have any of you had any experience with this?
I'm dumbfounded!!!!
 

ollie

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Do you own the sire? Is there a chance of the neighbors bull getting in to your cows?
 
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LMCR

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Yes, I own the sire and he is 100% registered red angus. I don't believe that another bull could have been in with my heifers without my knowledge.
I do know that anything is possible, but I don't think so.
 

dun

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LMCR":2hizta5n said:
Yes, I own the sire and he is 100% registered red angus. I don't believe that another bull could have been in with my heifers without my knowledge.
I do know that anything is possible, but I don't think so.

Are both parents 1A or are they 1B?

dun
 
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LMCR

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dun":1fvt3gx6 said:
LMCR":1fvt3gx6 said:
Yes, I own the sire and he is 100% registered red angus. I don't believe that another bull could have been in with my heifers without my knowledge.
I do know that anything is possible, but I don't think so.

Are both parents 1A or are they 1B?

dun

Yes, both parents are 100% - 1A
 

ollie

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I would suggest you made a mistake or somebody somewhere lied.
 

la4angus

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LMCR":1pprlpda said:
Yes, I own the sire and he is 100% registered red angus. I don't believe that another bull could have been in with my heifers without my knowledge.
I do know that anything is possible, but I don't think so.

You should have your bull and calf dna tested to prove that the bull is indeed the sire of the calf.
If he is indeed the sire you may want to get rid of him and find another bull for your herd sire.
If the bull is the sire he could throw other horned calves or calves with the horned gene.
I am not as familiar with the Red Angus breed, as I am with the Blacks but I believe the Red's have a breeding up program and he could have some horned genes from some ancestors generations ago.
 

txag

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la4angus":1q6z3v7q said:
LMCR":1q6z3v7q said:
Yes, I own the sire and he is 100% registered red angus. I don't believe that another bull could have been in with my heifers without my knowledge.
I do know that anything is possible, but I don't think so.

You should have your bull and calf dna tested to prove that the bull is indeed the sire of the calf.
If he is indeed the sire you may want to get rid of him and find another bull for your herd sire.
If the bull is the sire he could throw other horned calves or calves with the horned gene.
I am not as familiar with the Red Angus breed, as I am with the Blacks but I believe the Red's have a breeding up program and he could have some horned genes from some ancestors generations ago.

if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.
 

la4angus

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txag":xso4x2q0 said:
if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.

Absolutely correct txag.
Both the sire and dam ancestors could have come from a breeding up program
 

dun

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la4angus":w1jfnpev said:
txag":w1jfnpev said:
if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.

Absolutely correct txag.
Both the sire and dam ancestors could have come from a breeding up program

That was why I asked about 1A or 1B. 1A is 100% Angus, no breeding up. 1B are bred up.

dun
 

dun

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DRB":1u7le1n9 said:
Are you sure they are horns and not scurs???

Exactly my question. I believe scurs is a disqualifying trait that moves them to the Category classification

dun
 

certherfbeef

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txag":3rbt21pf said:
if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.

If these are scurrs, and this is a heifer calf, there has to be one alleel(sp) from both the sire and the dam. A heifer needs one from each parent, a bull only needs one from one parent.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.

That seems to be the common thinking on that topic, but i've been wondering lately if there isn't more to it than that. I've been using a Simm-Angus bull for the last few years. The guy who sold him to me swore that he was off of a Grand Champion Angus bull from Denver and one of his purebred horned Simm cows. He has small horns, something between a scur and a full sized horn. I had assumed that maybe had been bred up with a little Limo or something. Alot of my herd is not homozygous polled and so some calves are coming out horned and some polled. This year, one of my horned cows had a heifer calf that is polled. So I've got a polled calf off a horned bull and a horned cow. The last two calves she had were bull calves and had horns. One of them was off a double polled hereford bull. Now I'm wondering if that polled gene might be sex linked somehow. Its got me scratching my head anyway :?:
 

dun

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Cattle Rack Rancher":2i1rr2d2 said:
if they are truly horns & not scurs, then both parents must have passed on the horned gene, not just the bull. horns are a recessive trait so two copies of the gene must be present for the trait to be seen.

That seems to be the common thinking on that topic, but i've been wondering lately if there isn't more to it than that. I've been using a Simm-Angus bull for the last few years. The guy who sold him to me swore that he was off of a Grand Champion Angus bull from Denver and one of his purebred horned Simm cows. He has small horns, something between a scur and a full sized horn. I had assumed that maybe had been bred up with a little Limo or something. Alot of my herd is not homozygous polled and so some calves are coming out horned and some polled. This year, one of my horned cows had a heifer calf that is polled. So I've got a polled calf off a horned bull and a horned cow. The last two calves she had were bull calves and had horns. One of them was off a double polled hereford bull. Now I'm wondering if that polled gene might be sex linked somehow. Its got me scratching my head anyway :?:

I think the phenomonon your talking about with the polled calf from horned parents is exactly the process that brought about the Polled Hereford. A mutation of the horn gene. I suppose it could go the other way also, a gene mutation changing a polled gene to a horned. But it would take both sets of the pair to mutate to go from polled to horned.

dun
 

la4angus

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dun":zm1ktizt said:
That was why I asked about 1A or 1B. 1A is 100% Angus, no breeding up. 1B are bred up.

dun

Some people can lie and not get caught at it.
 

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