Pinkeye vs IBR - HELP!

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

So, I've been whining about the rain & mud. Well, it's still raining & the mud sure isn't getting better. Really stressing the cattle.
I started making notes of different yearlings (and a few cows) with white matter in their eyes. Well, yesterday, we ran two cows & 4 yearlings thru the chute with cloudy eyes. Yes, the "spot" is off center, so I'm dealing with IBR??? (never had it - only know what I read on this board - sure isn't casued by flies :shock: )
History, by this stage, our yearlings have received 4 MLV (BoviShield 5L5, and cows get booster each spring (last month). Cattle with cloudy eyes are not acting "sick" at all. Great appetites & not at all droopy. So, I have to "assume" they "have" IBR but have enough immunity to fight off the bad affects - except for the eyes.
What is the proper treatment for IBR?? for the eyes.
We treated like we do for Pinkeye - Biomycin (like LA200) injections, mastitis antibiotic directly in the eye & patched any that were bad.
So, what is the proper way to handle IBR bad eyes?
Or, is it possible to use Dun's method of benign leglect? Hate giving antibiotic shots if we don't need to.

 

[dun]

So, I've been whining about the rain & mud. Well, it's still raining & the mud sure isn't getting better. Really stressing the cattle.
I started making notes of different yearlings (and a few cows) with white matter in their eyes. Well, yesterday, we ran two cows & 4 yearlings thru the chute with cloudy eyes. Yes, the "spot" is off center, so I'm dealing with IBR??? (never had it - only know what I read on this board - sure isn't casued by flies :shock: )
History, by this stage, our yearlings have received 4 MLV (BoviShield 5L5, and cows get booster each spring (last month). Cattle with cloudy eyes are not acting "sick" at all. Great appetites & not at all droopy. So, I have to "assume" they "have" IBR but have enough immunity to fight off the bad affects - except for the eyes.
What is the proper treatment for IBR?? for the eyes.
We treated like we do for Pinkeye - Biomycin (like LA200) injections, mastitis antibiotic directly in the eye & patched any that were bad.
So, what is the proper way to handle IBR bad eyes?
Or, is it possible to use Dun's method of benign leglect? Hate giving antibiotic shots if we don't need to.

I'm not sure what the anitibiotic is but for clearing it up in 24 hours or less, an injection directly under the membrane of the eyeball (I have the vet do it cause I shake too hard and almost puke when I try it). Even with full vaccinations IBR will pop up occasioanlly. Talking to the vet about it and his thoughts are that it's just a strain (maybe a slight mutation) that isn;t common so isn;t in the vaccines.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I know that vaccines won't prevent cattle from ever gitting a disease, but it gives them enough immunity to hopefully fight it off without getting TOO sick.
After typing my post, I got thinking about hitting them with a TSV2 (I would use Inforce 3 but don't have any yet).
Yeah, Dun - shots in the eyeballs don't cut it with us either! that's why we use the mastitis antibiotic cream directly in the eyes.
I was just wondering if (unlike Pinkeye) it will clear up on it's own since the animals aren't "sick". When cattle get a snotty nose - I ignore & let them fight it off - as long as they are eating well. But, don't want to lose their sight.

 

[bse]

Just went to a class on this very thing vet said IBR is a virus antibiotics will not help no way to cure it the penicilin under the eye lid may give a little relief but no cure, this is what the vet said i dont know. said they will always have it told of a lady bought 1 cow at a sale brought it home just put her with other cows she had IBR gave it to the other 39 had 40 abortions he said may not show back up for yrs or may be back in two weeks compared it to a fever blister.

 

[dun]

I know that vaccines won't prevent cattle from ever gitting a disease, but it gives them enough immunity to hopefully fight it off without getting TOO sick.
After typing my post, I got thinking about hitting them with a TSV2 (I would use Inforce 3 but don't have any yet).
Yeah, Dun - shots in the eyeballs don't cut it with us either! that's why we use the mastitis antibiotic cream directly in the eyes.
I was just wondering if (unlike Pinkeye) it will clear up on it's own since the animals aren't "sick". When cattle get a snotty nose - I ignore & let them fight it off - as long as they are eating well. But, don't want to lose their sight.

It will clear up by itself but the possibility of flys importing pinkeye was always a concern of mine. We would only get one every couple of years but since the vet was handy and cheap I had him fix them up.

 

[Lucky_P]

Hands-down, best treatment protocol for any 'pinkeye' lesion in cattle is using one of the long-acting oxytetracycline formulations, at the proper dosage. Tetracyclines are present in tears at the same concentration as they are in blood/tissue fluid...so, the eye is constantly being bathed with treatment-level concentrations of the drug.

A squirt of any topical treatment, whether it's an opthalmic solution or ointment intended for use in the eye or mastitis treatments(not intended for use in the eye), is going to be washed out in less than 10 minutes just by normal tear action - and probably in even less time in those irritated, over-tearing eyes. A one-time squirt probably isn't really doing much to help. If you could do it 5 or 6 times a day (or more), maybe.

Subconjunctival injections of penicillin or pen-steroid concoctions? Yeah, I did 'em from time to time, and sewed the third eyelid to the upper eyelid on ulcerated eyes, but I don't have much to recommend the subconjunctival injections. Once the 'hole' where you stuck the needle in seals over, there's no 'leakage' and 'bathing' of the eye with antibiotic - and the remainder of that 1 or 2 ml of penicillin underneath the conjunctival membrane is no more effective there than if you'd injected in the animal's hindquarter. Those animals that got a subconj injection usually also got an IM dose of LA-200, which probably accounted for more bacterial clearance and healing than anything else I did for 'em.

Now, on the IBR deal. It may vary from place to place. We almost never see IBR. Went almost 20 years without our virology section finding it in a case of pinkeye, pneumonia, abortion - you name it. Over the past 5 years, it's reared its head from time to time, but never more than 4 or 5 cases in a year's time - if that many. Can't recall EVER confirming IBR in a pinkeye case.

I treat 'em all the same(if I treat them at all), regardless of cause - appropriate dose of a long-acting oxytetracycline preparation. Second dose at 3-4 days, if necessary. If the eye is ulcerated, I like to pull up the third eyelid and sew it to the upper lid with absorbable (gut) sutures.

Check out this treatment comparison paper:
http://californiaagriculture.ucanr.org/ ... lltext=yes

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

So, no matter what the "cause" was - it is considered Pinkeye?
We have absoluely NO flies - yet. Still way too cold. Just lots of STRESS.
Lucky_P, is it a wrong "assumption" to think this is being caused by IBR?? Also, if it is just a mild case, are you saying you wouldn't treat it & it COULD clear up on its' own? "(I treat 'em all the same(if I treat them at all)"
I am sure not trying to be sarcastic - I greatly appreciate your comments.
We have never had a vet stitch the eye shut - just used Patches (whether they are purchased or just a pair of jeans cut up) and (so far) have had 100% success, even on ones that look ready to "burst".
We have just never had more than an odd 1 or 2 cases - that's why I think it's being caused by the mud situation. Each one had white discharge built up on their eyes prior to the cloudyness.
Mainly, looking for PREVENTION now, if what we're doing is the right thing. Hard to prevent what we don't understand.

 

[larryshoat]

So, no matter what the "cause" was - it is considered Pinkeye?
We have absoluely NO flies - yet. Still way too cold. Just lots of STRESS.
Lucky_P, is it a wrong "assumption" to think this is being caused by IBR?? Also, if it is just a mild case, are you saying you wouldn't treat it & it COULD clear up on its' own? "(I treat 'em all the same(if I treat them at all)"
I am sure not trying to be sarcastic - I greatly appreciate your comments.ir of jeans cut up
We have never had a vet stitch the eye shut - just used Patches (whether they are purchased or just a pa) and (so far) have had 100% success, even on ones that look ready to "burst".
We have just never had more than an odd 1 or 2 cases - that's why I think it's being caused by the mud situation. Each one had white discharge built up on their eyes prior to the cloudyness.
Mainly, looking for PREVENTION now, if what we're doing is the right thing. Hard to prevent what we don't understand.

If what you are doing is working stick with it, my systemic antibiotic choice would be Nuflor, but if you're getting by LA200 then that's probably cheaper. Cattle can get pinkeye anytime and need to be treated, you've been at this long enough top know when to treat. Ask yourself this, what has cost you more in your life, the cattle you treated that didn't need it or the cattle you didn't treat that did need it. There is a perception in this country that we treat animals with antibiotics too quickly and it's nonsense, if we treated quicker and for an adequate duration we would save many more animals and use less antibiotics, thus the success of products like Draxin .

Larry

 

[Kingfisher]

I know that vaccines won't prevent cattle from ever gitting a disease, but it gives them enough immunity to hopefully fight it off without getting TOO sick.
After typing my post, I got thinking about hitting them with a TSV2 (I would use Inforce 3 but don't have any yet).
Yeah, Dun - shots in the eyeballs don't cut it with us either! that's why we use the mastitis antibiotic cream directly in the eyes.
I was just wondering if (unlike Pinkeye) it will clear up on it's own since the animals aren't "sick". When cattle get a snotty nose - I ignore & let them fight it off - as long as they are eating well. But, don't want to lose their sight.

It will clear up by itself but the possibility of flys importing pinkeye was always a concern of mine. We would only get one every couple of years but since the vet was handy and cheap I had him fix them up.

Hi Mr Dun. I noticed the cows we loaded today had some flys on em. The Bull too. He seemed to have some pink in his eyes. He is a Beefmaster. What does that mean and how does that come about with the flys. Thanks in advance.

 

[hillsdown]

So, no matter what the "cause" was - it is considered Pinkeye?
We have absoluely NO flies - yet. Still way too cold. Just lots of STRESS.
Lucky_P, is it a wrong "assumption" to think this is being caused by IBR?? Also, if it is just a mild case, are you saying you wouldn't treat it & it COULD clear up on its' own? "(I treat 'em all the same(if I treat them at all)"
I am sure not trying to be sarcastic - I greatly appreciate your comments.ir of jeans cut up
We have never had a vet stitch the eye shut - just used Patches (whether they are purchased or just a pa) and (so far) have had 100% success, even on ones that look ready to "burst".
We have just never had more than an odd 1 or 2 cases - that's why I think it's being caused by the mud situation. Each one had white discharge built up on their eyes prior to the cloudyness.
Mainly, looking for PREVENTION now, if what we're doing is the right thing. Hard to prevent what we don't understand.

If what you are doing is working stick with it, my systemic antibiotic choice would be Nuflor, but if you're getting by LA200 then that's probably cheaper. Cattle can get pinkeye anytime and need to be treated, you've been at this long enough top know when to treat. Ask yourself this, what has cost you more in your life, the cattle you treated that didn't need it or the cattle you didn't treat that did need it. There is a perception in this country that we treat animals with antibiotics too quickly and it's nonsense, if we treated quicker and for an adequate duration we would save many more animals and use less antibiotics, thus the success of products like Draxin .

Larry

Great post Larry !!! :clap:

 

[dun]

Hi Mr Dun. I noticed the cows we loaded today had some flys on em. The Bull too. He seemed to have some pink in his eyes. He is a Beefmaster. What does that mean and how does that come about with the flys. Thanks in advance.

Probably doesn;t mean anything other then your fly season is started. The relationship between flys and pinkeyes is that flys will crawl around in the gook (technical term) around the eyes of the one with it and will then crawl around the eyes of ones that don;t have it and will spread it that way.

 

[Kingfisher]

Hi Mr Dun. I noticed the cows we loaded today had some flys on em. The Bull too. He seemed to have some pink in his eyes. He is a Beefmaster. What does that mean and how does that come about with the flys. Thanks in advance.

Probably doesn;t mean anything other then your fly season is started. The relationship between flys and pinkeyes is that flys will crawl around in the gook (technical term) around the eyes of the one with it and will then crawl around the eyes of ones that don;t have it and will spread it that way.

All of there eyes looked good and clear. His just seemed to have some pigmentation going on that I had not noticed before. Thanks for your reply. How was the Red Angus sale?

 

[dun]

Hi Mr Dun. I noticed the cows we loaded today had some flys on em. The Bull too. He seemed to have some pink in his eyes. He is a Beefmaster. What does that mean and how does that come about with the flys. Thanks in advance.

Probably doesn;t mean anything other then your fly season is started. The relationship between flys and pinkeyes is that flys will crawl around in the gook (technical term) around the eyes of the one with it and will then crawl around the eyes of ones that don;t have it and will spread it that way.

All of there eyes looked good and clear. His just seemed to have some pigmentation going on that I had not noticed before. Thanks for your reply. How was the Red Angus sale?

After looking over the sale offering I didn;t end up going. I'm expecting to hear from the auctioneer in the next couple of days to get his take on how it went.

 

[Lucky_P]

Jeanne,
I call it 'pinkeye', regardless of whether it's caused by IBR, Moraxella bovis, Moraxella ovis, Mycoplasma bovoculi, or anything else.
When we see or get calls regarding 'pinkeye' outside of the 'normal' season, I always think about IBR and Mycoplasma, but I don't know that we've ever successfully identified IBR in ocular swab samples submitted to our lab - but that doesn't mean it's not a problem elsewhere in the country.
I've had some of our submitting veterinarians who have been dealing with 'atypical pinkeye', outside the normal timeframe, off and on for the last couple of months, here. Have detected Mycoplasma and Moraxella ovis in one herd.

I've not noticed any face flies on our cattle this spring, but when we loaded out some cull cows to the auction barn last week, they were carrying a few horn flies.

Nuflor will work - but you have to give two injections, at 24 hr intervals. I prefer to handle the cows only once, if I can help it - hence my preference for the long-acting tetracycline products.
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/IN ... a0205.html

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Thanks Lucky - that's exactly what I needed to know. I was unclear as to whether the cloudy eyes were "considered" pinkeye & if it would be treated the same. We have never had more than maybe 2 at one time during the summer - so this outbreak was concerning to us. Also, without this board, I would not have known that IBR produced the pinkeye affect.
Seems like I read that IBR exists in the membrains of the cattle's nasal area & stress can trigger it - so that was what I was "assuming" was happening. Keeping a close eye out on the calves - but they are not as stressed as the yearlings, because the calves all have sheds to get into and areas around the sheds with no mud.
Thanks all, for the comments. I keep thinking "next week" we'll get out on grass (plus hay), but we're a few weeks behind normal turnout and they are calling for rain everyday in the forecast. But, at least it is WARM today - grass may grow a little. NOW, the flies will come out. Saw some black flies this morning (errrrr - they love me).