Pinkeye after being worked

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ClinchValley

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Got all cows and calves worked in May. Cows were given a pinkeye shot, amongst other things.

Noticed yesterday i've at least two cows that have pinkeye coming on. Might be more, going to check and treat today.

Was talking to my neighbor. He said the pinkeye vaccine medicine can be cloudy or clear. He said the clear works where the cloudy does not. same stuff. One bottle can be clear, on can be cloudy.

Does anything about clear/cloudy bottles make sense? anyone ever heard that?
 

Bright Raven

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There are two species of bacteria that cause most pinkeye. Both of the genus Moraxella. My vet is Dr. Darin Stanfield. He says that only custom -autogenous vaccine - vaccines are effective. I use the vaccine he has custom made for the strains of Moraxella in this region. I have not had a single case since using it.
 

kenny thomas

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Bright Raven":3gxv5xtp said:
There are two species of bacteria that cause most pinkeye. Both of the genus Moraxella. My vet is Dr. Darin Stanfield. He says that only custom -autogenous vaccine - vaccines are effective. H I use the vaccine he has custom made for the strains of Moraxella in this region. I have not had a single case since using it.
Adding to this, dont quote the number but there is like 140 possible strains that could cause pinkeye. 2 years ago I used a vaccine that covered 104 strains. Had the most pinkeye I had seen in years. I think good pasture management and using the custom made can help. This year I didn't vaccinate for pinkeye and have 1 case where the grass heads got big.
 

Bright Raven

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kenny thomas":3jusvwt2 said:
Bright Raven":3jusvwt2 said:
There are two species of bacteria that cause most pinkeye. Both of the genus Moraxella. My vet is Dr. Darin Stanfield. He says that only custom -autogenous vaccine - vaccines are effective. H I use the vaccine he has custom made for the strains of Moraxella in this region. I have not had a single case since using it.
Adding to this, dont quote the number but there is like 140 possible strains that could cause pinkeye. 2 years ago I used a vaccine that covered 104 strains. Had the most pinkeye I had seen in years. I think good pasture management and using the custom made can help. This year I didn't vaccinate for pinkeye and have 1 case where the grass heads got big.

I have always mowed pastures on a regular basis. Some areas 3 times a season. I still had pinkeye until I used the autogenous vaccine. Nevertheless, I still wonder if it really does anything or whether these outbreaks of pinkeye in my herd are a cycle. So much of what I see is anecdotal evidence and dangerous to draw hard conclusions on that evidence.
 

kenny thomas

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No evidence at all but I feel they develop some immunity as a herd after being exposed. After a year of having it I have nothing usually the next year. Bringing in New animals may change that and I'm always bringing in New.
 

Bright Raven

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kenny thomas":183gxywz said:
No evidence at all but I feel they develop some immunity as a herd after being exposed. After a year of having it I have nothing usually the next year. Bringing in New animals may change that and I'm always bringing in New.

100 % agree. I sometimes think it is a natural immunity function. Pinkeye ran through my herd about 5 years ago. That is when Dr Stanfield recommended the autogenous vaccine. I used it and have had maybe 2 cases in the last 4 years. I often wonder if they simply developed natural immunity to the strains I had here and I am giving the vaccine undeserved credit!!!!!
 

TCRanch

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Bright Raven":29lcce3h said:
kenny thomas":29lcce3h said:
No evidence at all but I feel they develop some immunity as a herd after being exposed. After a year of having it I have nothing usually the next year. Bringing in New animals may change that and I'm always bringing in New.

100 % agree. I sometimes think it is a natural immunity function. Pinkeye ran through my herd about 5 years ago. That is when Dr Stanfield recommended the autogenous vaccine. I used it and have had maybe 2 cases in the last 4 years. I often wonder if they simply developed natural immunity to the strains I had here and I am giving the vaccine undeserved credit!!!!!
Noticed one of my girls had a cloudy, watery eye about 6 weeks ago. Could not get her caught but after about a week it started clearing up, never ulcerated. Couple days later I went down to the barn & she was literally standing next to the chute but I didn't run her through because it was almost completely gone, just a tiny white dot. Can't see anything now, it's totally clear. I vaccinate every year so was it the vaccine that essentially healed it? Or natural immunity? A small abrasion or seed that worked its way out? Things that make you go hmmmmmm . . . .
 

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Bright Raven":26uaio1n said:
kenny thomas":26uaio1n said:
No evidence at all but I feel they develop some immunity as a herd after being exposed. After a year of having it I have nothing usually the next year. Bringing in New animals may change that and I'm always bringing in New.

100 % agree. I sometimes think it is a natural immunity function. Pinkeye ran through my herd about 5 years ago. That is when Dr Stanfield recommended the autogenous vaccine. I used it and have had maybe 2 cases in the last 4 years. I often wonder if they simply developed natural immunity to the strains I had here and I am giving the vaccine undeserved credit!!!!!

I wonder. We had a really bad outbreak in the replacement heifers, also about 5 years ago. Did absolutely nothing to prevent future outbreaks and to this point have not had another case. Which isn't to say I won't have another.
 

Fire Sweep Ranch

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We have not had it for years; this year 6 cases now, of which 3 were calves still on the side of cows! It comes on FAST, and is resistant to treatment. I had the vet out before we left to the National show, 5 treated at that time but 4 were still symptomatic several days later. Vet injected 3 of the 4 in the eye to help clear it up. My new case popped up three days ago, we treated it as soon as we saw it. Her eye is still white, and irritated. I might have to call the vet out again, this strain I am dealing with is persistent. We have almost NO flies (ask Ron, he was here for 9 days watching our place), but there is some stem in the fields we are grazing (it was brush hogged, but some regrowth sent up seeds). No rain for 30 plus days (we are in d-2, severe drought category according to the US Drought Monitor), we are VERY dry and crunchy, so everything is sharp and painful when you step on it! I imagine the cows don't care for it either when they put there heads in it grazing!
 

Stocker Steve

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Fire Sweep Ranch":2zkpdxo1 said:
there is some stem in the fields we are grazing (it was brush hogged, but some regrowth sent up seeds). No rain for 30 plus days (we are in d-2, severe drought category according to the US Drought Monitor), we are VERY dry

Lots of factors, but stess is a really big one.
So heifers are more likly to break than cows, poor pasture is more likly to experience a break than good grass.
We see it here most often with the pasture hos who set stock some young cattle on rough rented ground till it is eaten down to the roots.
 
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ClinchValley

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Interesting. Thanks to all for the info so far.

I used pinkeye shield from our local CO-OP. New to all this, didn't know there were so many strains, and definitely wasn't aware there are custom tailored vaccines for this area. Now I know.

I've mowed once already. About to have to mow again. I'm thinking my problem area is having only so many water locations. And limited shaded areas. Pasture has been good so far, knock on wood. Maybe one or two seed heads per square foot in places. In places, none. Maybe 10 percent of pasture is inaccessible to a tractor, and is stemmy. But cattle see that ground maybe 4 days our of a month.

What do you all do for flies? This far, i've sprayed them from time to time. Due to how this farm is set up, a rub wouldn't work but half the month at best. Have considered putting the mop things on my homemade (plastic barrel) mineral feeders. Anyone use the mops?

Thought about it, i could come up with a mobile rub…maybe.
 

Bright Raven

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ClinchValley":gjzo7ytv said:
Interesting. Thanks to all for the info so far.

I used pinkeye shield from our local CO-OP. New to all this, didn't know there were so many strains, and definitely wasn't aware there are custom tailored vaccines for this area. Now I know.

I've mowed once already. About to have to mow again. I'm thinking my problem area is having only so many water locations. And limited shaded areas. Pasture has been good so far, knock on wood. Maybe one or two seed heads per square foot in places. In places, none. Maybe 15 percent of pasture is inaccessible to a tractor, and is stemmy. But cattle see that ground maybe 4 days our of a month.

What do you all do for flies? This far, i've sprayed them from time to time. Due to how this farm is set up, a rub wouldn't work but half the month at best. Have considered putting the mop things on my homemade (plastic barrel) mineral feeders. Anyone use the mops?

Thought about it, i could come up with a mobile rub…maybe.

Right now I am pouring about every 18 days with UltraBoss. Real effective but it would be a pain if I had cows that would not stand to be poured in the field. In that case, I would spray with a Synergized Permethrin in a small pump spray.
 

bird dog

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TCRanch":2qnc2w2c said:
Bright Raven":2qnc2w2c said:
kenny thomas":2qnc2w2c said:
No evidence at all but I feel they develop some immunity as a herd after being exposed. After a year of having it I have nothing usually the next year. Bringing in New animals may change that and I'm always bringing in New.

100 % agree. I sometimes think it is a natural immunity function. Pinkeye ran through my herd about 5 years ago. That is when Dr Stanfield recommended the autogenous vaccine. I used it and have had maybe 2 cases in the last 4 years. I often wonder if they simply developed natural immunity to the strains I had here and I am giving the vaccine undeserved credit!!!!!
Noticed one of my girls had a cloudy, watery eye about 6 weeks ago. Could not get her caught but after about a week it started clearing up, never ulcerated. Couple days later I went down to the barn & she was literally standing next to the chute but I didn't run her through because it was almost completely gone, just a tiny white dot. Can't see anything now, it's totally clear. I vaccinate every year so was it the vaccine that essentially healed it? Or natural immunity? A small abrasion or seed that worked its way out? Things that make you go hmmmmmm . . . .


You ask "was it the vaccine that essentially healed it?" Probably not. Look at some of those old tests where they test 100 or so calves that have pinkeye using different vaccines. They always have a control group where nothing is used. It always surprised me how many of the untreated just got over it. In some tests I have read about, the percentage of untreated "heal ups" was not much difference than the treated cases.

I think one of the best things to do this time of year is to just get them out of the sun for a while. Lock them in under a cover.
To me that is why patches seem to work well They keep the eye shaded.
 

Bright Raven

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bird dog":1b9a3vdi said:
TCRanch":1b9a3vdi said:
Noticed one of my girls had a cloudy, watery eye about 6 weeks ago. Could not get her caught but after about a week it started clearing up, never ulcerated. Couple days later I went down to the barn & she was literally standing next to the chute but I didn't run her through because it was almost completely gone, just a tiny white dot. Can't see anything now, it's totally clear. I vaccinate every year so was it the vaccine that essentially healed it? Or natural immunity? A small abrasion or seed that worked its way out? Things that make you go hmmmmmm . . . .


You ask "was it the vaccine that essentially healed it?" Probably not. Look at some of those old tests where they test 100 or so calves that have pinkeye using different vaccines. They always have a control group where nothing is used. It always surprised me how many of the untreated just got over it. In some tests I have read about, the percentage of untreated "heal ups" was not much difference than the treated cases.

I think one of the best things to do this time of year is to just get them out of the sun for a while. Lock them in under a cover.
To me that is why patches seem to work well They keep the eye shaded.

I have seen some of those studies where the vaccinated group does no better than the control group. Some bacteria are difficult to vaccinate for, i.e., Moraxella. Virus vaccines as a group provide better immunity.

Another example - there are studies on the practice of giving GnRH at the time of AI. Some studies show the conception was just as good in the control group as it was in the group getting GnRH.
 

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Bright Raven":mjtn3396 said:
ClinchValley":mjtn3396 said:
Interesting. Thanks to all for the info so far.

I used pinkeye shield from our local CO-OP. New to all this, didn't know there were so many strains, and definitely wasn't aware there are custom tailored vaccines for this area. Now I know.

I've mowed once already. About to have to mow again. I'm thinking my problem area is having only so many water locations. And limited shaded areas. Pasture has been good so far, knock on wood. Maybe one or two seed heads per square foot in places. In places, none. Maybe 15 percent of pasture is inaccessible to a tractor, and is stemmy. But cattle see that ground maybe 4 days our of a month.

What do you all do for flies? This far, i've sprayed them from time to time. Due to how this farm is set up, a rub wouldn't work but half the month at best. Have considered putting the mop things on my homemade (plastic barrel) mineral feeders. Anyone use the mops?

Thought about it, i could come up with a mobile rub…maybe.

Right now I am pouring about every 18 days with UltraBoss. Real effective but it would be a pain if I had cows that would not stand to be poured in the field. In that case, I would spray with a Synergized Permethrin in a small pump spray.

Sounds like a chance to see some immunity to Ultraboss and similar products pretty quickly at that pace. Are you using the 200 flies per cow threshold to treat?
 

Bright Raven

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Ebenezer":1zlhv3hx said:
Bright Raven":1zlhv3hx said:
ClinchValley":1zlhv3hx said:
Interesting. Thanks to all for the info so far.

I used pinkeye shield from our local CO-OP. New to all this, didn't know there were so many strains, and definitely wasn't aware there are custom tailored vaccines for this area. Now I know.

I've mowed once already. About to have to mow again. I'm thinking my problem area is having only so many water locations. And limited shaded areas. Pasture has been good so far, knock on wood. Maybe one or two seed heads per square foot in places. In places, none. Maybe 15 percent of pasture is inaccessible to a tractor, and is stemmy. But cattle see that ground maybe 4 days our of a month.

What do you all do for flies? This far, i've sprayed them from time to time. Due to how this farm is set up, a rub wouldn't work but half the month at best. Have considered putting the mop things on my homemade (plastic barrel) mineral feeders. Anyone use the mops?

Thought about it, i could come up with a mobile rub…maybe.

Right now I am pouring about every 18 days with UltraBoss. Real effective but it would be a pain if I had cows that would not stand to be poured in the field. In that case, I would spray with a Synergized Permethrin in a small pump spray.

Sounds like a chance to see some immunity to Ultraboss and similar products pretty quickly at that pace. Are you using the 200 flies per cow threshold to treat?

I don't count them. UltraBoss begins to lose its effectiveness at about 2 weeks. I treated yesterday. Horn flies were awful. Certainly, in the range of a couple hundred but that is a guess. Dang things are small and they are hard to count when they are moving.
 

elkwc

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Ebenezer":3uxn1tty said:
Bright Raven":3uxn1tty said:
ClinchValley":3uxn1tty said:
Interesting. Thanks to all for the info so far.

I used pinkeye shield from our local CO-OP. New to all this, didn't know there were so many strains, and definitely wasn't aware there are custom tailored vaccines for this area. Now I know.

I've mowed once already. About to have to mow again. I'm thinking my problem area is having only so many water locations. And limited shaded areas. Pasture has been good so far, knock on wood. Maybe one or two seed heads per square foot in places. In places, none. Maybe 15 percent of pasture is inaccessible to a tractor, and is stemmy. But cattle see that ground maybe 4 days our of a month.

What do you all do for flies? This far, i've sprayed them from time to time. Due to how this farm is set up, a rub wouldn't work but half the month at best. Have considered putting the mop things on my homemade (plastic barrel) mineral feeders. Anyone use the mops?

Thought about it, i could come up with a mobile rub…maybe.

Right now I am pouring about every 18 days with UltraBoss. Real effective but it would be a pain if I had cows that would not stand to be poured in the field. In that case, I would spray with a Synergized Permethrin in a small pump spray.

Sounds like a chance to see some immunity to Ultraboss and similar products pretty quickly at that pace. Are you using the 200 flies per cow threshold to treat?

I used Ultra Boss and both Saber and Ultra Saber in rotation last year on my vets advice and it worked good. This year I have used Fly Ban and Ultra Boss and a little Ultra Saber I had left over. I'm trying to decide this weekend what I will use next weekend. Ultra Boss and Fly Ban have the same active ingrediant and I can't tell there is any difference in effectiveness. I may go with Saber or Ultra Saber but looking at a couple of other options. I like something I can spray in a fine mist. I can't back pour all of mine. My vets have stressed rotating sprays with different ingrediants.
 

Bright Raven

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elkwc":1ex8drur said:
I used Ultra Boss and both Saber and Ultra Saber in rotation last year on my vets advice and it worked good. This year I have used Fly Ban and Ultra Boss and a little Ultra Saber I had left over. I'm trying to decide this weekend what I will use next weekend. Ultra Boss and Fly Ban have the same active ingrediant and I can't tell there is any difference in effectiveness. I may go with Saber or Ultra Saber but looking at a couple of other options. I like something I can spray in a fine mist. I can't back pour all of mine. My vets have stressed rotating sprays with different ingrediants.

Elkwc, Have you examined the difference between UltraBoss and UltraSabre? If not, this might help:

Ultra boss is a broader spectrum insecticide than Ultra sabre. Ultra sabre is lambdacyhalothrin and piperonyl butoxide for control of horn flies and lice. Whereas Ultra Boss is permethrin synergized with piperonyl butoxide. Ultra Boss controls a broad spectrum of ectoparasites - lice, horn flies and face flies, and to aid in the control of horse flies, stable flies, mosquitoes, black flies and ticks.

Lambdacyhalothrin has a record of being very effective which is a strong favor for sabre but I like the boss for control of a broader range of ectoparasites and pests.
 

TCRanch

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bird dog":9zksl9mc said:
TCRanch":9zksl9mc said:
Bright Raven":9zksl9mc said:
100 % agree. I sometimes think it is a natural immunity function. Pinkeye ran through my herd about 5 years ago. That is when Dr Stanfield recommended the autogenous vaccine. I used it and have had maybe 2 cases in the last 4 years. I often wonder if they simply developed natural immunity to the strains I had here and I am giving the vaccine undeserved credit!!!!!
Noticed one of my girls had a cloudy, watery eye about 6 weeks ago. Could not get her caught but after about a week it started clearing up, never ulcerated. Couple days later I went down to the barn & she was literally standing next to the chute but I didn't run her through because it was almost completely gone, just a tiny white dot. Can't see anything now, it's totally clear. I vaccinate every year so was it the vaccine that essentially healed it? Or natural immunity? A small abrasion or seed that worked its way out? Things that make you go hmmmmmm . . . .


You ask "was it the vaccine that essentially healed it?" Probably not. Look at some of those old tests where they test 100 or so calves that have pinkeye using different vaccines. They always have a control group where nothing is used. It always surprised me how many of the untreated just got over it. In some tests I have read about, the percentage of untreated "heal ups" was not much difference than the treated cases.

I think one of the best things to do this time of year is to just get them out of the sun for a while. Lock them in under a cover.
To me that is why patches seem to work well They keep the eye shaded.
Good point. Similar to benign neglect, as Dun would say. And I do have lots of trees & draws for shade plus a barn & a shelter. That said, I have a neighbor with an adjoining fence to 2 of my pastures and while he occasionally vaccinates (but not for pinkeye) he has essentially no fly control and I want to be proactive because what's in his herd could filter into mine plus my vet recommends vaccinating for pinkeye (geography).
 

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