Pile of Materials part 2 Very Long!

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Herefordcross

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I have a couple more questions for the more experienced people on here.

First let me say that I have the holes laid out and ready to be drilled and I measured my auger wrong and it is actually 14" in diameter. And I laid the holes out dead on, a real pain considering the wind was blowing here yesterday.

Question #1- Have any of you guys used these plastic sleeves called post protectors? They are about $30 bucks a piece and they have ventilation slots but, I 'm wonder if it's worth the extra $810 that it's gonna cost me for them
Would coating the portion of the post to be put in the ground with a couple coats of good fiberglass inbedded driveway tar help any? I've replaced a few poles on poles barns due to rot (they always seem to rot of at the top of the ground and I guess it's because they can't rot in the ground because they can't get air) and it ain't fun, the poles are already treated but, I want it to be standing for my daughters to use when I'm gone.

Question #2 Vapor barrier? What to use? This building is intended to be used for hay but, all of us know how that goes, that could change down the line and I may want to throw some heat into this building. Would regular Tyvek house wrap work or tar paper under the metal or what would you suggest??. I've seen the regular radiant barriers they make for the pole buildings but, I can't afford to do that so I was trying to figure out a way to have a vapor barrier incase I wanted to insulate it later.

I guess I'm starting to be glad that, this guy went bankrupt or the posts would've been stuck in the ground with no protection, which still may be the best bet?!, and I didn't think about maybe wanting to insulate it later but , now I've had time to think about these things, I want to give them some attention or at least some thought, and I'm sure that I'll get some good insight on CT. Sorry this is so long. :oops:
 
On one, we use burnt motor oil either poured or painted on the base of the posts. Usually do this when we change oil in tractors. Also, we put concrete underneath posts and fill to ground line around posts. (Termites are bad here)

We used a vapor barrier on one barn. It was like plastic styrofoam roll that was placed on the boards the tin layed on. In theory, this is supposed to stop any sweating between the tin and the boards. I don't know how well it has worked really can't tell any difference between the two barns. Can't see why tar paper wouldn't work but that other stuff was cheap.
 
Termites aren't a big problem here and I can see where the oil around the bases would help. I checked on the rolls of that stuff, i think it's the same stuff, and it was like $175 for 500 sq.ft. and I'm not gonna spend that kind of money on it. house wrap is only $80/roll from the plant down the road, not rejects or anything they just sell it to us locals for about 1/2 price but, I don't know how well it would work and It would be a pain to deal with on the roof I know that for sure
 
if you put the house rap on the roof you wont be able to walk on it...if you do be very carefull that stuff is slick
 
Just about anything you put on roof purlins is gonna make it difficult to work with but, it can be done. I was just looking to provide a good vapor but, still be affordable. and that looks like about the best way to do it for the money??
 
Herefordcross":ryemu3vg said:
I have a couple more questions for the more experienced people on here.



Question #1- Have any of you guys used these plastic sleeves called post protectors? They are about $30 bucks a piece and they have ventilation slots but, I 'm wonder if it's worth the extra $810 that it's gonna cost me for them
Would coating the portion of the post to be put in the ground with a couple coats of good fiberglass inbedded driveway tar help any? I've replaced a few poles on poles barns due to rot (they always seem to rot of at the top of the ground and I guess it's because they can't rot in the ground because they can't get air) and it ain't fun, the poles are already treated but, I want it to be standing for my daughters to use when I'm gone.

Question #2 Vapor barrier? What to use? This building is intended to be used for hay but, all of us know how that goes, that could change down the line and I may want to throw some heat into this building. Would regular Tyvek house wrap work or tar paper under the metal or what would you suggest??. I've seen the regular radiant barriers they make for the pole buildings but, I can't afford to do that so I was trying to figure out a way to have a vapor barrier incase I wanted to insulate it later.

I'm making some quesses about your climate, like, WVA gets a lot of rain. Look into the concrete posts where you clamp the wood pole on about 8" above ground. I'm trying to find a link. I'll post it later if I find it. I saw them at the Louisville Farm Show last year. :lol:

Don't sink a lot of money in something like a vapor barrier for the future. Build the best quality you can afford/sq ft. You'll always wish it was bigger. Use the profits to build your heated shop/office complex next year.

Please don't use used oil. Nasty stuff, what with the heavy metals and all. It all ends up in the water we drink.

I'm considering drilling the post holes extra deep and putting 2" stone in them, if I don't use the concrete posts. Drainage is a big deal in our heavy rainfall climate.
 
john250 Don't sink a lot of money in something like a vapor barrier for the future. Build the best quality you can afford/sq ft. You'll always wish it was bigger. Use the profits to build your heated shop/office complex next year

This is more than likely the last building there will be in my lifetime anyway. The plan is to use it for hay/equipment for the time being and convert it to a shop with heat, etc. at a later date. Our other buildings are in a better location for hay storage. When of the biggest mistakes I made was a 30x60 building that is insulated and drywalled and completely finished inside it isn't tall enough to get some stuff in. It will work better for hay storage. My last name isn't Trump so I'll do a little each year to convert this one to a shop/equipment storage. If I won the powerball it would have radiant heat and all the bells and whistles. Trying to install a vapor barrier after a building, especially a pole building, doesn't work to well. I do a fair amount of construction work to afford to keep the farm running and I finished the interior of a pole barn for a guy and it was a nightmare and there is no one close that does the spray in foam insulation, some of it I saw was a soybean based formula which I thought was awesome.
john250
concrete posts where you clamp the wood pole on about 8" above ground. I'm trying to find a link. I'll post it later if I find it. I saw them at the Louisville Farm Show last year.
Try about $83.50 a post that would equal $2,254.50 and that's about ten percent +/- the total building material cost and I can't swallow that at this time. We are kind of stuck with a pile of material and no matter how well you cover lumber, if it's in the weather it's gonna get twisted and a percentage will be unuseable, thus the "big rush".
john250Please don't use used oil. Nasty stuff, what with the heavy metals and all. It all ends up in the water we drink.
I can understand your point, however used oil is used everyday in spray mixtures and a lot of other stuff, the amounts that would be put around a post would be minimal if I were doing it. And I doubt it's true effectiveness anyway because it's not gonna stay at the top of the ground where the posts usually rot off, it's gonna run to the bottom so heck if I know which direction to head.
As far as rainfall, etc. goes here. My buildings and house are backed up against a mountain and my pasture/hay ground is on the level well drained ground. In a normal year it stays wet from Oct until April where the house and buildings are. Thanks for your input!
 
Herefordcross":13xqzmdd said:
I have a couple more questions for the more experienced people on here.

First let me say that I have the holes laid out and ready to be drilled and I measured my auger wrong and it is actually 14" in diameter. And I laid the holes out dead on, a real pain considering the wind was blowing here yesterday.

Question #1- Have any of you guys used these plastic sleeves called post protectors? They are about $30 bucks a piece and they have ventilation slots but, I 'm wonder if it's worth the extra $810 that it's gonna cost me for them
Would coating the portion of the post to be put in the ground with a couple coats of good fiberglass inbedded driveway tar help any? I've replaced a few poles on poles barns due to rot (they always seem to rot of at the top of the ground and I guess it's because they can't rot in the ground because they can't get air) and it ain't fun, the poles are already treated but, I want it to be standing for my daughters to use when I'm gone.

Question #2 Vapor barrier? What to use? This building is intended to be used for hay but, all of us know how that goes, that could change down the line and I may want to throw some heat into this building. Would regular Tyvek house wrap work or tar paper under the metal or what would you suggest??. I've seen the regular radiant barriers they make for the pole buildings but, I can't afford to do that so I was trying to figure out a way to have a vapor barrier incase I wanted to insulate it later.

I guess I'm starting to be glad that, this guy went bankrupt or the posts would've been stuck in the ground with no protection, which still may be the best bet?!, and I didn't think about maybe wanting to insulate it later but , now I've had time to think about these things, I want to give them some attention or at least some thought, and I'm sure that I'll get some good insight on CT. Sorry this is so long. :oops:

Well, I think I missed the first part of this post, but the company I work for puts up about 200 of these post frame buildings a year. Now, you didn't say where you were from but in Manitoba, our biggest issue is movement due to frost. On a 30' wide building 14" for a hole width is tight. We usually prefer 16" or 18" as it gives you a little more leeway. As far as posts are you using a square timber or a laminated post? As long as the lumber is PWF, it is designed for below ground and should be good for about 60 years. Are you planning to concrete the holes or just fill back using crushed rock? We've done both and usually we just go by the customers preference although we have seen some buildings that were built 25 years ago where the concrete is starting to eat away at the the green treated lumber right at ground level. The most important thing is to make sure that your posts are plumb and in a perfectly straight line on the walls and when you start your trusses, make sure that the first one is perfectly plumb and straight. If you can manage those two things and keep your purlins on the walls and roof straight (mark your trusses before you put them up). Trim your purlin on the roof to a 1/16" below the best length for those purlins and butt them end to end. That way you can pre-drill your roof sheets which usually prevents leaks better than plunge drilling. As far as vapor barrier goes, we always just use 6 mill poly on the inside, If you feel that you need to seal off the steel on the top and bottom on the outside, most people just use closures for this. I also would recommend finishing the inside with steel. Its way more durable in the long run. Anyway, if you have any more questions, please feel free to PM me. Good Luck.
 
our steel truss chicken houses have styrofoam insulation sheets as roof (and wall) insulation. Just before the steel siding/roofing goes on the insulation sheet is laid down and the siding/roofing is screwed in right through the insulation.

This same insulation is in our shop building and during a recent cold spell it was between 20 and 0 outside (with wind) for about a week and the shop didn't drop below 50 with no inside heat source
 
I was a contractor for 25 years-built lots of pole sheds ---If the poles are treated you should,nt need anything else I have pulled up treated posts that were in the ground for over 30 years good as the day they went in----vapour barrier and such is put on the inside after the outer walls are built
 
If the vapor barrier is put on the inside it holds condensation in between the metal and the wall girts anyone little experience will tell you that and it causes rot.
 
Herefordcross":dxrjjagt said:
If the vapor barrier is put on the inside it holds condensation in between the metal and the wall girts anyone little experience will tell you that and it causes rot.

The poly goes on the interior of the wall girts and if you have no exterior layer of poly to seal it, why would you think it would cause rot? As I said, we build a couple hundred of these a year and its never been an issue. How do you think they do it on a normal studwall building? They are alot less ventilated than a post frame building and the only time I've heard of them having problems is when the outside is stuccoed over the vapor barrier so it can't breathe and even that is pretty rare.
 
Cattle Rack Rancher
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:

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Herefordcross wrote:
If the vapor barrier is put on the inside it holds condensation in between the metal and the wall girts anyone little experience will tell you that and it causes rot.


The poly goes on the interior of the wall girts and if you have no exterior layer of poly to seal it, why would you think it would cause rot? As I said, we build a couple hundred of these a year and its never been an issue. How do you think they do it on a normal studwall building? They are alot less ventilated than a post frame building and the only time I've heard of them having problems is when the outside is stuccoed over the vapor barrier so it can't breathe and even that is pretty rare.

I have been building houses for a fair amount of time now and nothing condensates to the extent metal does, if you use a base guard and closure to keep the bugs, birds and air out and then you put poly on the interior side of the wall girts, then you tell me what you have......... , condensation that won't evaporate unless enough sun or warmth hits it. Take a set of bilco basement entrance doors and place a layer of plastic on the underside of it (interior side) and watch what happens and while it takes some time, not that much is some cases, that style of metal entrance door will rust quite rapidly with even the best paint. And unless I'm missing something you would have an even worse situation with wall girts due to the 1 1/2" thickness and distance between wall girts being a fairly large space for condensation to build up in. I

I'm not trying to be arguementative and I appreciate the input Houses I know, pole buildings while similar are a different ballgame in most respects.
 
Herefordcross":3r7jq9p1 said:
Cattle Rack Rancher
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Herefordcross wrote:
If the vapor barrier is put on the inside it holds condensation in between the metal and the wall girts anyone little experience will tell you that and it causes rot.


The poly goes on the interior of the wall girts and if you have no exterior layer of poly to seal it, why would you think it would cause rot? As I said, we build a couple hundred of these a year and its never been an issue. How do you think they do it on a normal studwall building? They are alot less ventilated than a post frame building and the only time I've heard of them having problems is when the outside is stuccoed over the vapor barrier so it can't breathe and even that is pretty rare.

I have been building houses for a fair amount of time now and nothing condensates to the extent metal does, if you use a base guard and closure to keep the bugs, birds and air out and then you put poly on the interior side of the wall girts, then you tell me what you have......... , condensation that won't evaporate unless enough sun or warmth hits it. Take a set of bilco basement entrance doors and place a layer of plastic on the underside of it (interior side) and watch what happens and while it takes some time, not that much is some cases, that style of metal entrance door will rust quite rapidly with even the best paint. And unless I'm missing something you would have an even worse situation with wall girts due to the 1 1/2" thickness and distance between wall girts being a fairly large space for condensation to build up in. I

I'm not trying to be arguementative and I appreciate the input Houses I know, pole buildings while similar are a different ballgame in most respects.

The poly goes to the interior of the interior wall girts, right? I think that you are assuming that the outside metal would be airtight and its really nowhere close. At the top on the outside, there's always a gap between where the top of the steel is and the eave flashing. Also the metal is galvanized so as long as you don't heat it up with a quickie saw (which takes the temper out of the steel), it won't rust. Most of our crews use a nibbler or a shear to cut their steel so that doesn't happen. Predrill all your holes with a good drill bit. Make sure sure you dust off any filings as they will sometimes cause rust marks....I've been in construction for over 20 years. I've built and renovated a few buildings in my time. For the last 6 years, I've been a Project Manager doing farm and commercial Post Frame buildings almost exclusively, so I guess you either have to trust that I know of what I speak or figure it out for yourself. Good Luck.
 

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