Picture of bull as yearling.

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djinwa

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I'm considering this bull for ordering semen. They only had a picture as a yearling - will get an updated one to me. What do you think? I wonder if anyone can guess the breed.

Winchester.jpg
 
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djinwa

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Killala":30bnh5s7 said:
Square Meater

You win!

As you said, Colin, looks a bit leggy. Owner blames camera angle. I also thought he looked like some kind of continental breed. They say he looks much different now - we'll see when I get another photo.

One of only a couple square meater bulls in the U.S. - he was shipped from Australia. As many know, they're a smaller version of Murray Grey, though this guy is supposedly over frame 4. Doesn't seem enough smaller to justify a different breed, but maybe more to the story behind breeds getting started?

While poking around the web, I saw this study recently started in Colorado which will compare production of Murray Grey, Square Meaters, and Red Angus.

http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisproje ... 14104.html
 

3waycross

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djinwa":3oot48be said:
Killala":3oot48be said:
Square Meater

You win!

As you said, Colin, looks a bit leggy. Owner blames camera angle. I also thought he looked like some kind of continental breed. They say he looks much different now - we'll see when I get another photo.

One of only a couple square meater bulls in the U.S. - he was shipped from Australia. As many know, they're a smaller version of Murray Grey, though this guy is supposedly over frame 4. Doesn't seem enough smaller to justify a different breed, but maybe more to the story behind breeds getting started?

While poking around the web, I saw this study recently started in Colorado which will compare production of Murray Grey, Square Meaters, and Red Angus.

http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisproje ... 14104.html


Well crack me up, I went Antelope hunting with the author of this study last weekend down by Ordway Colo. He's a good guy and really seems to know his stuff. We talked a lot about Square Meaters.
 

gberry

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Well, what did he have to say about them? I couldn't find any results from the study.
 

3waycross

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gberry":3sekdwbp said:
Well, what did he have to say about them? I couldn't find any results from the study.


If it's the same guy we talked about the cross in general no specifics. It was my understanding that he was also doing a forage study for CSU. If I hear more I will post it.
 

CPL

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What do you think?

I don't think to highly of the bull you've posted. Structurally he looks very incorrect. He appears to be VERY straight through out his front end, and his rear pasterns are too straight. I would like to see him move, because I could definitely see him taking a short, choppy stride. He also looks to be very tightly wound and doesn't look practical at all. If he were mine he would have been steered and sent to the feedyard where his muscle shape could be put to good use.
 
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djinwa

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gberry":2zjwdz3m said:
Well, what did he have to say about them? I couldn't find any results from the study.

I believe it just started this summer, meaning cows bred? Probably no calves yet - it's supposed to go through 2014. Maybe 3waycross can get the inside scoop as it goes along. Who knows, perhaps by the end, the entire beef industry will be converted to Murray Greys. :)

CPL":2zjwdz3m said:
What do you think?

I don't think to highly of the bull you've posted. Structurally he looks very incorrect. He appears to be VERY straight through out his front end, and his rear pasterns are too straight. I would like to see him move, because I could definitely see him taking a short, choppy stride. He also looks to be very tightly wound and doesn't look practical at all. If he were mine he would have been steered and sent to the feedyard where his muscle shape could be put to good use.

I think I can see what you're saying. Will be interesting to see if he looks better in recent photos. I'm not a serious breeder - would use him terminally on just a few cows. My first interest was in smaller size, but that didn't turn out so much. Supposed to be early maturing. Then I liked the color - dark skin (no sunburn) with light hair (less heat and flies). Then supposed to be docile.
 

S&WSigma40VEShooter

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CPL":180td5cb said:
What do you think?

I don't think to highly of the bull you've posted. Structurally he looks very incorrect. He appears to be VERY straight through out his front end, and his rear pasterns are too straight. I would like to see him move, because I could definitely see him taking a short, choppy stride. He also looks to be very tightly wound and doesn't look practical at all. If he were mine he would have been steered and sent to the feedyard where his muscle shape could be put to good use.


Great post.
 

Keren

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CPL":2t22l2j0 said:
What do you think?

I don't think to highly of the bull you've posted. Structurally he looks very incorrect. He appears to be VERY straight through out his front end, and his rear pasterns are too straight. I would like to see him move, because I could definitely see him taking a short, choppy stride. He also looks to be very tightly wound and doesn't look practical at all. If he were mine he would have been steered and sent to the feedyard where his muscle shape could be put to good use.

additionally, he doesnt display a typical Square Meaters phenotype; the breed was developed for early maturing, easy fleshing, vealer cattle; this bull shows almost no breed character apart from the fact that he is smaller than the fence. He displays none of those characteristics which separate a Square Meaters from a Murray Grey. When you look at a Square Meater, you should be able to TELL that he is a Square Meater, not a Murray Grey. By the frame, but also by the muscle pattern, fleshing ability, maturity pattern etc. I can see the merit in a lot of bulls posted here, even if they are not my cup of tea, but this is one bull I would NOT use. I get the feeling he has kept his testicles simply because of his breed. Imho if you are wanting to use this bull, you would do better to use a small framed Murray Grey bull; there are plenty around that would certainly do as good a job or better than this bull.
 

KNERSIE

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Keren":3dkvglm0 said:
CPL":3dkvglm0 said:
What do you think?

I don't think to highly of the bull you've posted. Structurally he looks very incorrect. He appears to be VERY straight through out his front end, and his rear pasterns are too straight. I would like to see him move, because I could definitely see him taking a short, choppy stride. He also looks to be very tightly wound and doesn't look practical at all. If he were mine he would have been steered and sent to the feedyard where his muscle shape could be put to good use.

additionally, he doesnt display a typical Square Meaters phenotype; the breed was developed for early maturing, easy fleshing, vealer cattle; this bull shows almost no breed character apart from the fact that he is smaller than the fence. He displays none of those characteristics which separate a Square Meaters from a Murray Grey. When you look at a Square Meater, you should be able to TELL that he is a Square Meater, not a Murray Grey. By the frame, but also by the muscle pattern, fleshing ability, maturity pattern etc. I can see the merit in a lot of bulls posted here, even if they are not my cup of tea, but this is one bull I would NOT use. I get the feeling he has kept his testicles simply because of his breed. Imho if you are wanting to use this bull, you would do better to use a small framed Murray Grey bull; there are plenty around that would certainly do as good a job or better than this bull.

I agree with Keren, breed character is a very important trait, any bull that you can have a guess the breed quiz with you'll do well to avoid.

Christian, I don't think he is straight fronted, but certainly short fronted, I'll venture a guess that he is open shouldered as well, but that i can't say with certainty without seeing him grazing. The lack of capacity in a smallish frame certainly won't add doing ability to the average cow herd.
 
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djinwa

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Yes, Keren, I didn't think through the early maturing part, which is the advertised strength of Square Meaters. Even if he looks better in later photos, he (or his calves) should be ready for eating as a yearling. They shipped this guy clear from Australia with a load of Lowlines. You'd think they would have picked a better bull for that expense.

As for small frame Murray Greys, I was poking around a few days ago on the web looking for some and seems most everything is frame 6 or 7, unless someone can point me elsewhere. Maybe there are smaller ones in Australia? Guess I can quit fooling around and go back to getting some semen from red angus bull, frame 4 with good calving ease I see on Kit Pharo's site - also rated for udder and disposition.

I do like that silver color though. I ran into an interesting study comparing body surface temperatures of black angus, hereford, and murray grey. Five degrees cooler for murray grey than angus.
http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_f ... 401039.pdf
 
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